I have to have the vaccine or I loose my job

[wingingmumlife]

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

It's an odd post to put on Mumsnet anyway as everyone knows it's nuts on here, especially where Covid is involved, OP even starts with saying she will get flamed

I’ll be honest I really thought long and hard about having the vaccine as I myself have a bit of health anxiety, nothing scares me more than the possibility of side affects from medication. I ended up having it after listening to two family members side of things. They both work in hospitals and the things they’ve both seen are horrendous. One of their young colleagues had hung themselves (thankfully found and saved in enough time) in the hospital toilets because she couldn’t bare holding hands of lonely patients knowing they were going to die without seeing their families. My other relative had to administer CPR on an older colleague who dropped to the floor in front of them and she couldn’t save him. They’ve both said they can’t fathom healthcare providers not accepting or not “believing” in the vaccine whilst they’ve been front row to things like this.

My father has had heart problems for a long time and had to have a heart surgery earlier this year so he was considered high risk. He’s fully vaccinated and caught COVID from my step-sister who caught it at school. He had very mild symptoms and recovered really well and I truly believe this is down to the vaccine and I’m incredibly thankful for this. My friends father had very similar health issues as my dad and unfortunately caught COVID before the vaccine was available and passed away.

I feel like everyone has different reasons for getting or not getting the vaccine, but personally I’m very grateful to it and believe that people should really look into how this has affected peoples lives and reconsider their choices.

userperuser

“The OP will have chosen that career path fully informed of the requirements and this particular vaccination wasn’t one of them.”

That’s life. Circumstances change.

If there’s a 50-65% reduction in transmission amongst vaccinated people then it stands to reason that it will be the same, if not a slightly higher, figure amongst unvaccinated but previously infected people. Otherwise why is an antibody reaction caused by a vaccine any different to an antibody reaction caused by a natural infection?

I can’t see how it can’t be argued any different and in that case, surely there at least needs to be a differentiation between those previously infected and recovered and those yet to be vaccinated or infected?

Anecdotally, my family all had covid before vaccines were available and despite a further year with 4DC at school, living through Delta and not really limiting any social contact or movement, none of us have ever caught it again.

'Maybe unvaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus, but not at my place of work. I am head to toe in PPE, literally sweating when I take it all off - we aren't short of PPE anymore either.'

That's funny op because at our practice they only wear ppe when performing aerosol generating procedures, actual treatment not for routine check ups. So i doubt you wear ppe all day everyday,

Get the vaccine or get another job, as others have said the vaccine reduces transmission by 63% so you need to put the needs of patients before your own anxiety.

I risk being killed or injured riding my bike, but am happy to take the risk.

Me, me, me

It's always me me me with anti vaxxers though. They had some guy ringing in to R4 yesterday and his whole argument was about him and wanting the doctor to insist he would never get Covid and what if the vaccine was bad for him. Honestly he sounded pathetic.

Human rights? What about my human rights for getting dental care in a safe space. I would be mortified to know that any of my heathcare practitioners are unvaccinated. I actually think it's really embarrassing for you to think you know better and choose not to get the vaccine.

Once you have Covid, there may be little difference in transmission rates. But if you're vaccinated, you're significantly less likely to get it, so less chance of passing it on!

But this is what I have issue with. Im 100% pro vacation, on a personal level I think people that refuse them are foolish and selfish. However I fully support people having the right to chose, and I mean given a free choice, not being coerced by losing their jobs. Vaccines do have risks. This is not a vaccine that is going to eradicate this disease (if it were I’d understand the gov. Stance much more). Since delta there is little difference in transmission rates. If I were making this decision I’d want to be damned sure that there was clear data that in healthcare settings (where good hygiene and PPE are hopefully used, I’ve seen some shocking hand washing in hospitals) unvaccinated and regularly tested people are spreading it more than vaccinated. I know SO many vaccinated people who having given up testing, assuming their covid is just a cold, low and behold a week later they’ve tested positive. There are an awful lot of vaccinated people spreading covid, so it seems senseless to make a completely ideological distinction. If people want to make sure covid stays out of healthcare settings and workplaces regular testing is really the only way, not vaccination.

I wish people would branch away from main stream media and do research as the true story is so frightening

@riveted1

I'm putting myself at risk by choosing not to have the vaccine. I've chose not to have the vaccine due to my health anxiety. That's my choice. It should be MY choice.For a virus with a high survival rate (especially for people my age) we should be able to make that choice wether or not we want to have it.

You should not have the vaccine if you do not want, nor should you be coerced into having it @wingingmumlife

But equally it is a requirement for healthcare staff to be immunised against relevant communicable diseases, and there is a strong rationale for this vaccine to be included in those required for those with close patient contact.

.

it is absolutely your choice and, as with every other choice, it has consequences.

@AnkleDeep 🤣🤣🤣

OP, I'm sorry this situation is causing you anxiety and I sincerely hope you can reach a decision that is right for you.

I don't think you necessarily having the freedom to make a choice taken away from you, but you are in a situation where you have to make a choice. The option of doing nothing has been taken away from you. So out of three paths, one has definitely been removed.

That's a consequence of our leaders deciding a course of action they feel might work for every individual, but is the right way for our society as a whole. And there is a clear rationale for that decision. Vaccination reduces transmission and less transmission means less people becoming seriously ill and less stress on the health system and the economy.

You have the option of retaining your independence. You can opt out of the process and make your own way, but that may inevitably involve some sacrifice. Inter-dependence brings the benefits of shared resources and labour, but means the loss of some personal freedoms.

I remember during the early stages of the pandemic, scientists were saying that it’s unlikely we’d have a vaccine as coronaviruses are extremely difficult to vaccinate against, mainly due to it being a respiratory virus.
None of the current vaccines seem to be that successful at long term protection. It doesn’t seem like it’s coming anytime soon and we’ll probably be in a position where we’re having boosters fairly regularly.
I don’t blame young healthy people or those who’ve already had the virus not wanting to go down this route.

@Lostinacloud

If there’s a 50-65% reduction in transmission amongst vaccinated people then it stands to reason that it will be the same, if not a slightly higher, figure amongst unvaccinated but previously infected people. Otherwise why is an antibody reaction caused by a vaccine any different to an antibody reaction caused by a natural infection?

I can’t see how it can’t be argued any different and in that case, surely there at least needs to be a differentiation between those previously infected and recovered and those yet to be vaccinated or infected?

Anecdotally, my family all had covid before vaccines were available and despite a further year with 4DC at school, living through Delta and not really limiting any social contact or movement, none of us have ever caught it again.

an honest infographic from a trustworthy source www.immunology.org/coronavirus/connect-coronavirus-public-engagement-resources/covid-immunity-natural-infection-vaccine

@thisplaceisweird

Human rights? What about my human rights for getting dental care in a safe space. I would be mortified to know that any of my heathcare practitioners are unvaccinated. I actually think it's really embarrassing for you to think you know better and choose not to get the vaccine.

This!

I'm sorry you are suffering from health anxiety, and also anxiety of potentially losing your job.

I do find it funny though that you say you're dressed head to toe in PPR so very very little risk of covid or transmission, when many dentists are still refusing to see patients because of the risks.

If you really do have health anxiety OP, and I’m certainly not saying you don’t, I’m amazed that you managed to carry on working through a pandemic in a job where random people are coming in every day, and sitting close by, probably for at least half an hour at a time, with their mouths wide open, potentially breathing out the virus!

I’d honestly have thought the jab would be something you’d have jumped at - especially as a parent of a young child - what would happen to her if you became too ill to care for her? And please don’t continue to kid yourself that young, healthy people don’t become very ill from COVID - they can and do.

Yes, having the vaccine or not is your choice. But so is the question of whether or not you lose your job.

I’m afraid I don’t agree. I think people should have the vaccine, particularly if their jobs mean a proximity to others.

I showed thst infographic or one very like it to my anti vaxx brother and he just laughed and said it was biased as it was from an immunology group so they were mako g money out of the vaccine

Shame there is no vaccine for stupid

I understand your concerns ,but at the end of the day you are protecting others as well as yourself .A good friend of ours only in her late 40s died in the Summer of Covid. No one just blindly goes off for a jab and looks forward to it!

@DumplingsAndStew

I'm sorry you are suffering from health anxiety, and also anxiety of potentially losing your job.

I do find it funny though that you say you're dressed head to toe in PPR so very very little risk of covid or transmission, when many dentists are still refusing to see patients because of the risks.

My dentist has been seeing people all the way through apart from the three or four months they had to shut

OP, I would encourage you to visit your GP again specifically to address your health anxiety. It clearly is very severe and there may be medication, or further therapeutic approaches that may help. This does appear to be unhelpfully ruling your life at the moment and I'd recommend keep plugging away until something works. It's not inevitable that it will continue.

You say no one is forcing me to have the vaccine but I already can't go to certain places unless I've had it.

Just want to pick up on this as one example of the complexity of the issue. See, the thing is, you do expose others to more risk when you mix freely without being fully vaccinated. So others could equally say that you are forcing vulnerable people to stay in their homes, not have dental care etc. It's not as simple as 'your human right' as it clashes with other people's right to life. The fact that you are thinking like this, and seeing yourself as the victim in this suggests that maybe the health anxiety is stopping you thinking clearly about this. I defend people's right to do things I consider ridiculous when it's just them they're affecting, but when you expose others to more risk, that's not OK - at least it removes your right to just do what you want without consequence.

it sounds as though you need treatment for the health anxiety, CBT or similar. It will help you through getting the vaccine.

To those who've said they 'don't understand' why they have to have it.

It's because a pandemic response has to be at 'population' level. There has to be a high % of people within a population who are vaccinated or otherwise reliably immune - to both reduce transmission and lessen impact.

Unfortunately a population-level response doesn't really take into account individual people's feelings, anxieties or judgements.

We all benefit massively from population public health interventions that have taken place over the years - vaccination, screening programmes, access to healthcare, access to clean water, clean air etc.

OP I suggest you try to understand public health a little more, as well as dealing with your health anxiety. We're all just numbers at a public health level - you can have the vaccine and your job, but not your job without the vaccine. We all have tough choices to make in life, and I'm sorry for you that you are facing this at the moment.