Austria unvaccinated lockdown

[MRex]

How is this expected to actually work in practice? I have only seen basic UK news articles, interested mostly to understand the practical implications.

Personal views without knowing detail: I simply don't see any way this can be achieved without infringing on personal freedoms of unvaccinated and vaccinated quite significantly. I'm very pro-vax in general and for covid, but I hope the UK doesn't start anything like this, seems like it would just have anyone digging their heels in and cause a lot of social unrest issues.

It means that if you know your own body and that the vaccine isn’t for you

Huh?

@PAFMO
Well said. Any one who does not have the vaccine still has choice, but they want everyone elses choices too. #gettheshot

@Pippi1970

It means that if you know your own body and that the vaccine isn’t for you

Huh?

Haha. I know...I thought mineral deficiency first. But no, psychic bodily knowledge it seems. God. These are the people who end up in hospital with healthcare workers rollimg their eyes in frustration.

I remember my mum (clinically depressed, obsessed with YouTube) saying smugly "I don't need the vaccine because I have an amazing thing. AN IMMUNE SYSTEM" I did mildly point out that the whole point of Covid is thst noone is immune to it, but she still hasn't had the vax AFAIK. She's 81.

@Pippi1970

I remember my mum (clinically depressed, obsessed with YouTube) saying smugly "I don't need the vaccine because I have an amazing thing. AN IMMUNE SYSTEM" I did mildly point out that the whole point of Covid is thst noone is immune to it, but she still hasn't had the vax AFAIK. She's 81.

Hasn't there been studies done very recently that has uncovered that some people do have a natural immunity to Covid?

Yes, there has. A tiny tiny proportion of people. They generally haven't been identified by watching out for people going "I have an IMMUNE SYSTEM, I know my body" though.
Likewise, a small minority of children are presenting to hospitals after having mild symptoms during their Covid infection but which approx 6-7 weeks later is turning into much more serious effects like myocarditis. (Lunchtime news had a report about it, and the paediatrician said they just don't know what is triggering these effects so long afterwards)
Experts are learning things about Covid all the time.

@AntiMaskersAreTwats

Can I ask what is happening with children in Austria? My DC are supposed to be going on a school trip mid December. All the teachers going have to be fully vaccinated but the children under 12 don’t. Is this new lockdown likely to stop school trips going?

Children under 12 are exempt from the 2-g requirement. According to the tourist agency "a solution is currently being worked out for 12-17 year olds".

I don’t specifically know about Austria, but in Germany over 12s need to follow the same rules as adults because the vaccine has been available for almost 6 months now, and upon recommendation from medical experts, all over 12s have had access to 2 doses too.

There are many threads about Mumsnetters who want to take their teens on holiday/to see family in Europe and can’t, because the UK has only given them one dose.

If you’re over 12 and don’t have 2 doses (or another type of Covid pass), you’re unvaccinated.

@EileenGC
Thats the case here in Ireland (voluntary) and in France (by law). Both doses.

For children info

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelocal.at/20211106/what-do-austrias-new-covid-entry-rules-mean-for-kids/%3Famp

@Colin56
"Going to go against the grain here. Why should the majority of the vaccinated population curtail their freedoms and accept the loss of availability of hospital healthcare just so the unvaccinated can run the risk of infection which we all pay for?
I was in France last week and if you dont have a covid pass you dont get in anywhere like restaurants, hairdressers, museums etc. End of.
If you dont want to get vaccinated thats fine but then you dont get the chance to partake in vaccinated life. Two years of this because most infection is driven by pools of infected unvaccinated people. Im done with it."

I agree. I have friends/family who are extremely vulnerable, or immunocompromised, and because people around aren't even bothering with masks, it means, while being double vaccinated and taking all the precautions they can themselves, they have massively restricted lives for the forseeable future.

They've done everything right to protect themselves and others. They should have the right to feel more safe in 'normal' society.

I hate all this criticising other countries for how they're handling the pandemic. All govts are doing their best to handle it in the best way for their citizens. No govt wants citizens to die or have a miserable life. Their choices are difficult.

@Pippi1970

I remember my mum (clinically depressed, obsessed with YouTube) saying smugly "I don't need the vaccine because I have an amazing thing. AN IMMUNE SYSTEM" I did mildly point out that the whole point of Covid is thst noone is immune to it, but she still hasn't had the vax AFAIK. She's 81.

Does that make you wonder if she could be right?

Has she had Covid? It doesn’t sound like it. She’s not been vaccinated and she’s 81. Your mum’s immune system is protecting her.

Sorry just to add - many of us have T cells from previous other Covid infections that are protecting us from this current Covid 19.

Scientists are trying to develop a vaccine that activates T cells in a similar way.

But some of us are actually immune. Maybe your mum is too.

Of course she couldn’t know that for sure. But she’s not to be laughed at really. Tbf to her @Pippi1970

Or perhaps she just hadn’t come into contact with Covid yet because the people around her being quite cautious.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

Or perhaps she just hadn’t come into contact with Covid yet because the people around her being quite cautious.

Maybe.

But I’m feeling that we can’t keep this up forever. Can we?

Vaccines every 6 months. Vaccine mandates and passports?

There has to come a time when the majority of people say enough is enough - just like Pippa’s mum.

And COVID-19 will still be out there dangerous for some but not all of us. A lottery for us all, as it is now.

We can’t lock ourselves up forever etc etc Snnnnrrrrrr I’m boring myself now. Sorry.

Just - I think - Pippa’s mum is probably right. And if she’s relaxed about the vaccine and trusts her immune system I imagine she won’t be one of those locking herself up and away.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

Or perhaps she just hadn’t come into contact with Covid yet because the people around her being quite cautious.

I know a number of people around that age - family members and their friends mainly. Most of them have health problems a few are frailer and get care at home. I don't think any of them have had covid despite being in an area where the prevelance has been high (the highest in Europe at one point). Weird.

I was there over the summer and had to show my vaccine passport at all bars and restaurants. Mask wearing was mandatory on public transport and indoors.
They have always been more cautious than us so I don’t think you can compare our countries, we have very different mindsets.

And then there’s my 80 year old dad who now has COVID despite being vaccinated 3 times.

It is odd. Odd enough for me to question whether the vaccines make any difference at all.

I don’t think the majority of people will say enough is enough. We’ve been conditioned now to just accept testing, vaccines etc

@Sian73

And then there’s my 80 year old dad who now has COVID despite being vaccinated 3 times.

It is odd. Odd enough for me to question whether the vaccines make any difference at all.

Or you could look at actual evidence. Look at this graph, where travelling tabby has mapped cases, hospitalisations and deaths. As Delta variant has a higher viral load than Alpha variant, all the metrics this year should be worse than last year, but they aren't. The divergence where cases can be high without the same impact on hospitalisations and deaths - that's the protective effect of vaccines.

For me this is bollocks. I can’t be bothered to mince my words anymore, it’s utter bollocks.
If Austria had just decreed that perhaps the over 65’s and immuno-compromised citizens should shield for a few months to get past winter then I could believe that their government had genuine health concerns for its people and were taking science and data based steps to protect those most likely to suffer serious illness and death from covid. But to just blanket confine unvaccinated people, many of whom might have already had covid without needing hospitalisation and many of whom might be under 40 and therefore extremely unlikely to die from covid or end up in hospital then I just can’t get on board with it. Instead I see it as nothing other than forced vaccination by coercion and removal of rights. Vaxxed or unvaxxed, I don’t care, nobody should be on board with this, it’s not right, end off.

[quote duffeldaisy]@Colin56
"Going to go against the grain here. Why should the majority of the vaccinated population curtail their freedoms and accept the loss of availability of hospital healthcare just so the unvaccinated can run the risk of infection which we all pay for?
I was in France last week and if you dont have a covid pass you dont get in anywhere like restaurants, hairdressers, museums etc. End of.
If you dont want to get vaccinated thats fine but then you dont get the chance to partake in vaccinated life. Two years of this because most infection is driven by pools of infected unvaccinated people. Im done with it."

I agree. I have friends/family who are extremely vulnerable, or immunocompromised, and because people around aren't even bothering with masks, it means, while being double vaccinated and taking all the precautions they can themselves, they have massively restricted lives for the forseeable future.

They've done everything right to protect themselves and others. They should have the right to feel more safe in 'normal' society.[/quote]
Because the vaccine doesn’t actually mean that you’re necessarily a safer person to be around? You can still contract the virus and spread it. If you are vaccinated and have the virus then you are a risk to others. If someone is unvaccinated and not infected then they are not a risk.

This is fairly basic stuff. I’m not sure why people still can’t seem to get their head around it and think they’re better/safer/more entitled to freedom because they’ve had a vaccine that is more about preventing themselves getting seriously ill than anything else.

If it was Ebola with a CFR of 8% you would be screaming for a vaccine.

Why do people think this is a good argument? ‘If the virus was a completely different virus with a much higher CFR, then more people would want the vaccine.’ Well, duh. The reason a lot of people don’t want it is because this virus is usually mild/asymptomatic in the vast majority of young, otherwise healthy people (the groups who currently have the lowest uptake levels). Many of them have already had the virus and have recovered fine which makes them even less concerned about it.

@Sugarandtime

I don’t think the majority of people will say enough is enough. We’ve been conditioned now to just accept testing, vaccines etc

What - never? They're so conditioned that they'll go on and on testing/vaccinating/submitting to Lockdowns and vaccine passports forever ...

Really?