Austria unvaccinated lockdown

[MRex]

How is this expected to actually work in practice? I have only seen basic UK news articles, interested mostly to understand the practical implications.

Personal views without knowing detail: I simply don't see any way this can be achieved without infringing on personal freedoms of unvaccinated and vaccinated quite significantly. I'm very pro-vax in general and for covid, but I hope the UK doesn't start anything like this, seems like it would just have anyone digging their heels in and cause a lot of social unrest issues.

@XenoBitch

*Why is mainstream media not reporting it?

I keep seeing videos of demonstrations both in Europe, but also Australia and NZ and other places I'm sure - on Twitter. They are big demonstrations - but never reported on MSM.

Why is this?*

Dons tin foil hat
Because they are peaceful. When it kicks off, it gets reported then... and then people consuming MSM then think all the protests are like that.

What does Dons tin foil hat?

Mean? - sorry.

Are Austrian people ok with that?

What's the alternative? Locking down again for everybody? Indefinitely? The current variants are a lot more contagious than what we had 12 months ago. Do we do another winter in lockdown? When the infection rates amongst the vaccinated are minimal?

What does Dons tin foil hat?

Sorry. It means that what I was saying might come across as a conspiracy theory.

@EileenGC

Are Austrian people ok with that?

What's the alternative? Locking down again for everybody? Indefinitely? The current variants are a lot more contagious than what we had 12 months ago. Do we do another winter in lockdown? When the infection rates amongst the vaccinated are minimal?

Minimal? Have you seen the public health England vaccine surveillance reports?

I know so many people who are double jabbed and had covid in the past 6 months.

Minimal? Have you seen the public health England vaccine surveillance reports?

I know so many people who are double jabbed and had covid in the past 6 months.

I'm not in England. I'm in Germany which has a very similar demographic to Austria, although slightly higher vaccination rates. The infection rates are minimal, yes, that is what the reports and numbers are saying. I know not to trust 100% what the media says, but this is also the reality in my city and amongst my colleagues, friends, doctors I speak to.

I barely know anyone who was double jabbed and got Covid recently. Single jabbed + Covid, yes. Double jabbed 3/4 months apart, 9 months ago, yes. But these are exceptions here. Vaccination to all under 40s opened up in June so most people had their second jab 4 months ago. The age group with the most infections is 15-35yo. These aren't people whose immunity is wearing off. The biggest percentage of infections come from the unvaccinated population who is (or was) free to mix at parties, clubs, restaurants, football matches.

@Macaroni46 As i cant access a second vaccine through no fault of my own the first person or organisation that does that to me may well end up with unwanted press attention.

@IHateFlies Its called doubling down.

@EileenGC

Minimal? Have you seen the public health England vaccine surveillance reports?

I know so many people who are double jabbed and had covid in the past 6 months.

I'm not in England. I'm in Germany which has a very similar demographic to Austria, although slightly higher vaccination rates. The infection rates are minimal, yes, that is what the reports and numbers are saying. I know not to trust 100% what the media says, but this is also the reality in my city and amongst my colleagues, friends, doctors I speak to.

I barely know anyone who was double jabbed and got Covid recently. Single jabbed + Covid, yes. Double jabbed 3/4 months apart, 9 months ago, yes. But these are exceptions here. Vaccination to all under 40s opened up in June so most people had their second jab 4 months ago. The age group with the most infections is 15-35yo. These aren't people whose immunity is wearing off. The biggest percentage of infections come from the unvaccinated population who is (or was) free to mix at parties, clubs, restaurants, football matches.

Interesting. There are news stories in Australia about vaccinated only events and venues with breakouts where the majority of attendees came down with it. It's hard to square situations like that with the data you mention. Or the PHE data. I'm not doubting your experiences though.

@XenoBitch

What does Dons tin foil hat?

Sorry. It means that what I was saying might come across as a conspiracy theory.

Ah - thank you

I didn’t think it sounded like conspiracy theory

@Coldpressed
I disagree with your post. Most people got vaccinated because it is the right thing to do.
Ironically the example you chose in Waterford is actually my nearest city when I am in Ireland.
You made the mistake: correlation does not imply causation- in the case of Waterford it is possible to have the highest number of new cases AND the highest % vaccinated, they are not mutually linked. If the national rate is lower than the Waterford infected profile rate it can be at the top of the list.
My position is that if you choose to be unvaccinated then you opt out of co-operating with societal norms and should expect some exclusion.

It is of course true that vaccinated people are also catching it and can act as spreaders at mass events. But those people make up a tiny percentage of the overall infection figures.

And they're also very unlikely to get ill and need ICU treatment, or use up extra resources in hospital. That's why vaccines are effective and we shouldn't 'mind' a certain number of infections, because if people don't become ill or cause the healthcare system to collapse, it will just be one of those illnesses we co-exist with.

@EileenGC

Minimal? Have you seen the public health England vaccine surveillance reports?

I know so many people who are double jabbed and had covid in the past 6 months.

I'm not in England. I'm in Germany which has a very similar demographic to Austria, although slightly higher vaccination rates. The infection rates are minimal, yes, that is what the reports and numbers are saying. I know not to trust 100% what the media says, but this is also the reality in my city and amongst my colleagues, friends, doctors I speak to.

I barely know anyone who was double jabbed and got Covid recently. Single jabbed + Covid, yes. Double jabbed 3/4 months apart, 9 months ago, yes. But these are exceptions here. Vaccination to all under 40s opened up in June so most people had their second jab 4 months ago. The age group with the most infections is 15-35yo. These aren't people whose immunity is wearing off. The biggest percentage of infections come from the unvaccinated population who is (or was) free to mix at parties, clubs, restaurants, football matches.

I think the U.K. started before the rest of Europe and so our vaccines are wearing off.

3 people I know have Covid now and they’re all triple or double jabbed. My dad caught it weeks after his booster. I’m wondering whether Covid has escaped the vaccine now.

[quote Colin56]@Coldpressed
I disagree with your post. Most people got vaccinated because it is the right thing to do.
Ironically the example you chose in Waterford is actually my nearest city when I am in Ireland.
You made the mistake: correlation does not imply causation- in the case of Waterford it is possible to have the highest number of new cases AND the highest % vaccinated, they are not mutually linked. If the national rate is lower than the Waterford infected profile rate it can be at the top of the list.
My position is that if you choose to be unvaccinated then you opt out of co-operating with societal norms and should expect some exclusion.[/quote]
But surely the entire premise of vaccine passports is that there IS a correlation between vaccination and infection rates - a negative correlation. I would expect to have seen at least a hint of this within the UK but there's none.

*UK and Ireland!

And they're also very unlikely to get ill and need ICU treatment, or use up extra resources in hospital. That's why vaccines are effective and we shouldn't 'mind' a certain number of infections, because if people don't become ill or cause the healthcare system to collapse, it will just be one of those illnesses we co-exist with.

This to me is the key point that so many 'I'm not an anti vaxxer but' posters seem to be missing. The whole point of lockdowns was to protect the health service. It is a fact that you are more likely to get seriously ill and need hospital care if you are not vaccinated. Forget about the you can still get covid, we all know this but the big problems only arise when people get seriously ill from it and need care that is when the health service gets overwhelmed. Putting the unvaxxed in lockdown before the vaxxed makes sense from a healthcare and economic perspective. Why close everything down if it is just the unvaxxed overwhelming healthcare that is the problem? Maybe time will show that that isn't the case but I think it is worth a try and will be interested to see the data from Austria.

Most people got vaccinated because it is the right thing to do

Is there proper data on this? Anyone I ask in person says it is because they didn't want to get really ill if they caught Covid, or because they wanted to go to large events/go abroad, or because they had to due to their job. I don't know a single person who got the jab "for the greater good".

@Mynameismargot

And they're also very unlikely to get ill and need ICU treatment, or use up extra resources in hospital. That's why vaccines are effective and we shouldn't 'mind' a certain number of infections, because if people don't become ill or cause the healthcare system to collapse, it will just be one of those illnesses we co-exist with.

This to me is the key point that so many 'I'm not an anti vaxxer but' posters seem to be missing. The whole point of lockdowns was to protect the health service. It is a fact that you are more likely to get seriously ill and need hospital care if you are not vaccinated. Forget about the you can still get covid, we all know this but the big problems only arise when people get seriously ill from it and need care that is when the health service gets overwhelmed. Putting the unvaxxed in lockdown before the vaxxed makes sense from a healthcare and economic perspective. Why close everything down if it is just the unvaxxed overwhelming healthcare that is the problem? Maybe time will show that that isn't the case but I think it is worth a try and will be interested to see the data from Austria.

It is so incredibly rare for anyone under 30 (who isn't obese) to end up in hospital with this. Those people are not going to be a burden on the healthcare system. So what's the justification for placing them under house arrest by the logic you set out?

@XenoBitch

Most people got vaccinated because it is the right thing to do

Is there proper data on this? Anyone I ask in person says it is because they didn't want to get really ill if they caught Covid, or because they wanted to go to large events/go abroad, or because they had to due to their job. I don't know a single person who got the jab "for the greater good".

I don't know, but to me that's exactly what 'for the greater good' means?

If I don't get ill from it, I'm less likely to give it to others.
If I'm going to large events or travelling, I'm contributing to the economy, society, and interacting with other people which is good for all our mental health.
If I get it from my job, I'm allowing hundreds of colleagues to operate as usual and not having an impact on my company.

This is all part of why getting the vaccine is beneficial to those around us too. Not just so we can protect Auntie Jean who is 96 years old and has COPD. It's about healthcare but also society and economy and relationships...

@Coldpressed
'But surely the entire premise of vaccine passports is that there IS a correlation between vaccination and infection rates - a negative correlation. I would expect to have seen at least a hint of this within the UK but there's none'

But there is, statistically speaking as a double vaxxed, mask wearing, socially distancing person I have less risk of infection, becomimg sick, using hospital resources or infecting others. So why should my vaccination commitment not be rewarded??? And I want to hang out with people like ne! I've dropped dumb ass friends who are anti vaxxers. Bye!
If you look at any of the figures in most countries vaccination has had a profound effect on lowering hospitakisation figures. The largest percentage of those who end up in hospital are unvaxxed. Thats just plain dumb and I am not giving up my life to facilitate stupid choices.

It is so incredibly rare for anyone under 30 (who isn't obese) to end up in hospital with this. Those people are not going to be a burden on the healthcare system. So what's the justification for placing them under house arrest by the logic you set out?

But they are starting to be a burden right now? The hospitals aren't getting full of obese 60 year olds. They're getting full of a range of ages, and a large percentage of those patients are younger, fairly healthy people.

*I don't know, but to me that's exactly what 'for the greater good' means?

If I don't get ill from it, I'm less likely to give it to others.
If I'm going to large events or travelling, I'm contributing to the economy, society, and interacting with other people which is good for all our mental health.
If I get it from my job, I'm allowing hundreds of colleagues to operate as usual and not having an impact on my company.

This is all part of why getting the vaccine is beneficial to those around us too. Not just so we can protect Auntie Jean who is 96 years old and has COPD. It's about healthcare but also society and economy and relationships...*

Humans are inherently selfish.. and that is not a bad thing. But I don't think the reasons I stated were given "for the greater good"
My DF hasn't left the house for years and he wanted the jab so he doesn't get ill. Nothing to do with giving it to others.
Many people had the vaccine to keep their job because they didn't want to get sacked.

@XenoBitch

Most people got vaccinated because it is the right thing to do

Is there proper data on this? Anyone I ask in person says it is because they didn't want to get really ill if they caught Covid, or because they wanted to go to large events/go abroad, or because they had to due to their job. I don't know a single person who got the jab "for the greater good".

But the bigger picture is for the greater good. If everyone didnt think about the greater good then nobody could go anywhere. Not being sick unnecessarily is for the greater good, not being unvaccinated and spreading covid at events or abroad is for the greater good. The motivation is personal but the outcome is societal.

It is still so very extremely rare for healthy people under 30 to be hospitalised with covid. The majority being hospitalised are vaccinated anyway.

The motivation is personal but the outcome is societal.

Very well put. Sums it up really.