Austria unvaccinated lockdown

[MRex]

How is this expected to actually work in practice? I have only seen basic UK news articles, interested mostly to understand the practical implications.

Personal views without knowing detail: I simply don't see any way this can be achieved without infringing on personal freedoms of unvaccinated and vaccinated quite significantly. I'm very pro-vax in general and for covid, but I hope the UK doesn't start anything like this, seems like it would just have anyone digging their heels in and cause a lot of social unrest issues.

@BoredZelda

I know what to do if this comes to the UK.

It won’t. U.K. gov couldn’t even bring themselves to do the first lockdown properly. They won’t do this.

There's a lot of people on this board that would be loving it!

This is nonsense, peddled by people who feel the only way they can justify their own lack of awareness of the issue and don’t want to ever do anything about Covid, is to belittle and make up fantasy about those who don’t want to ignore the pandemic.

There's plenty of bile being spouted just read the threads for example the ones about care workers. I'm not belittling, I'm just utterly horrified.

It makes sense. If you want to try and protect the health service without completely decimating your economy then you lockdown the people who right now are disproportionately affecting the health service - the unvaccinated. I can see why somewhere would give that a try before resorting to locking down everyone when it might not be necessary. I presume it is just those that are willingly unvaccinated that are being locked down so it isn't like they just happen to be more likely to cause strain on the health service, they are happily choosing it.

@Mynameismargot

It makes sense. If you want to try and protect the health service without completely decimating your economy then you lockdown the people who right now are disproportionately affecting the health service - the unvaccinated. I can see why somewhere would give that a try before resorting to locking down everyone when it might not be necessary. I presume it is just those that are willingly unvaccinated that are being locked down so it isn't like they just happen to be more likely to cause strain on the health service, they are happily choosing it.

Why not lock down the people most likely to end up in hospital to start with.... so the elderly and people with health conditions that put them at greater risk a poor outcome. Why lock up the healthy?

@Colin56

Going to go against the grain here. Why should the majority of the vaccinated population curtail their freedoms and accept the loss of availability of hospital healthcare just so the unvaccinated can run the risk of infection which we all pay for? I was in France last week and if you dont have a covid pass you dont get in anywhere like restaurants, hairdressers, museums etc. End of. If you dont want to get vaccinated thats fine but then you dont get the chance to partake in vaccinated life. Two years of this because most infection is driven by pools of infected unvaccinated people. Im done with it.

This is more than shutting people out of hospitality. This proposition is closer to house arrest. To place citizens, who have committed no crime, under what is essentially house arrest, without violating human rights, you would need a much more lethal disease and a vaccine that actually prevented transmission.

"Two years of this.." ....What? Not even applicable to the first year when most people hadn't even had the chance. There is a huge amount of transmission taking place between fully vaccinated people. Look at county Waterford in Ireland. Most vaccinated county and had recently had the highest infection rate.

There's plenty of bile being spouted just read the threads for example the ones about care workers. I'm not belittling, I'm just utterly horrified.

I have read them. Nobody has ever suggested they would be loving it if unvaccinated aged people were locked down.

Now we wait and see what effect this will have on Austrias infection rates. My guess is it will do little and the whole country will end up in lockdown rather quickly.

It’s going to be interesting to see how other European countries respond to the rising cases despite high vaccination rates going forward. They’ll first blame the unvaccinated but truth be told it’s a matter of understanding that Covid is unlike anything else we’ve encountered before, without a full cure that eradicates the virus completely we are likely to be stuck in this perpetual cycle of waves for the foreseeable future.

Why not lock down the people most likely to end up in hospital to start with.... so the elderly and people with health conditions that put them at greater risk a poor outcome. Why lock up the healthy?

Where I live the 7% of adults that are unvaccinated make up more than 50% of icu admissions. It is silly to pretend that people that aren't vaccinated are not putting an unnecessary strain on the health service. Like I said in my post the unvaccinated are happily making the choice to be unvaccined, happily making a choice that statistics show puts them far more at risk of ending up in hospital than if they were vaccinated, the elderly and people with health conditions aren't making that choice(presuming they are vaccinated).

If 7% of adults are making up more than 50% of icu admissions who is more likely to end up in hospital in the first place, I would argue that they are.

@Colin56 agree with you 100%. Not a popular view on MN but one that is shared more widely in RL.

What is happening about under 16s? The last I read the Austrian govt hadn’t decided what the rules would be for them (meant to be in Vienna in January with the kids!).

Why not lock down the people most likely to end up in hospital to start with.... so the elderly and people with health conditions that put them at greater risk a poor outcome. Why lock up the healthy?

And just to add to this, why lock up the healthy, well most people are healthy until they are not. I was healthy until I suddenly got sepsis. My dh was healthy until he developed an autoimmune condition. And some people will be healthy until they get covid and they won't be healthy anymore, that's generally how it works. Not getting the vaccine increases that risk and increases your chances of landing in hospital.

Unenforceable I am sure but a splendid idea.

If people are going to behave in such an anti-social way and not get vaccinated then they should expect to remain anti-social and at home.

@BoredZelda

There's plenty of bile being spouted just read the threads for example the ones about care workers. I'm not belittling, I'm just utterly horrified.

I have read them. Nobody has ever suggested they would be loving it if unvaccinated aged people were locked down.

Someone has now!

@Stritzi

That is correct, I currently live in Austria and yes we register where we live and every time we move house with our local council and it is compulsory to carry some form of ID with you out of the house. I live in one of the states ( so like a county I guess ) where they have imposed lockdown for the unvaccinated as of Monday. Unvaccinated people are allowed to go to work to the shops and allowed to exercise outside but can’t go to the cinema or hair dresser for example

Thanks. How is it going to be monitored? And if everyone is still going to work, shops etc then isn't it a bit of theatre rather than likely to have a huge impact on infection rates?

@Mynameismargot

Why not lock down the people most likely to end up in hospital to start with.... so the elderly and people with health conditions that put them at greater risk a poor outcome. Why lock up the healthy?

And just to add to this, why lock up the healthy, well most people are healthy until they are not. I was healthy until I suddenly got sepsis. My dh was healthy until he developed an autoimmune condition. And some people will be healthy until they get covid and they won't be healthy anymore, that's generally how it works. Not getting the vaccine increases that risk and increases your chances of landing in hospital.

But unvaccinated =/= unhealthy. It also does not mean they are happily unvaccinated too. There are not one homogenous mass who all feel the same. There was a lady who used to post on this board a lot who wanted the vaccine but was beside herself with fear. It took months for her to get the first dose, and that was with lots of attempts at showing up to the vaccine centre too. There has also been threads started by people who have loved ones who have severe anxiety around side effects or even the needle itself.

@XenoBitch it's irrelevant if they're happy or not. The fact remains they're unvaccinated and taking up a disproportionate amount of NHS resource.
Apart from those who can't vaccinate for medical reasons, everyone has the choice whether to be vaccinated or not. You choose not to get a vaccine. Fine. Your choice. But you have to accept there will be consequences to that. Can't have your cake and eat it.

But unvaccinated =/= unhealthy. It also does not mean they are happily unvaccinated too. There are not one homogenous mass who all feel the same.

I presume those that are unvaccinated on health grounds will have an exemption. Do you mean unvaccinated doesn't = unhealthy? I never said it did. And if you mean unvaccined equals healthy then I never said it did either. I said most people are healthy until they are not and being unvaccinated makes you more at risk of serious complications from covid, that was the whole point of the vaccine and those statistics are reflected in hospitals. Therefore locking down those that are unvaccinted by choice(not those with a medical exemption) makes sense. You are actively choosing to be more at risk for hospital admission than you would be vaccinated that counts for the elderly, the unhealthy and the healthy.

I hope that makes sense, I've been up since 5 and need sleep!

@MRex well we currently have police checks, they can go into restaurants/ public buildings/ events and ask to see staff and customer passes. But more than that they haven’t been clear and honestly I am not sure they can check it properly. I believe unvaccinated staff have to have regular PCR tests ( every two days but I could be wrong ) on a day to day level I am not sure what has actually changed, since monday unvaccinated people haven’t been able to go restaurants etc so yes to me it is a bit of Theater

I live in Germany - not far from the border with CZ/Austria - and seeing it from here, it seems like a potentially dangerous move, but also a very necessary one if we don't want to end up in another lockdown like last winter.

The problem here - and especially in Upper Austria, the region where these restrictions are being introduced - is that now, the vast majority of those getting infected and then sick are unvaccinated. The numbers speak for themselves and in those vaccinated, the transmission levels are still much, much lower.

I just got in from work, performing arts venue. We were closed throughout last winter. Tonight we had 100+ people on stage, no distancing or masks (impossible in my profession), full audience (2000+ seats) in the hall.

If the cases keep rising, we'll have to close again. There are companies in Bavaria that have already shut because there were clusters of unvaccinated members of staff and it became impossible to do the productions with various people being off sick, and the rest being classed as close contacts.

We cannot close again. In my particular job, on a national level - I'm speaking of over 150 companies with at least 200/300 people each - there has been no large-scale transmission between vaccinated members of staff. They monitor this constantly. We stopped testing this summer - there was no money for unlimited private testing for another winter. There have been no clusters, no transmission in large numbers. We have been able to work. Thousands of people have been able to earn their usual salaries again.

If we don't implement more restrictions, we'll have to close theaters, concert halls, museums, restaurants and hairdressers again. We need to avoid that because people in those industries can't go through another winter with very little income and no business activity.

From Monday my state will change from 3G (test, vaccine or recovery) to 2G (vaccine or recovery) for entrance to public buildings and private businesses. We are hoping this is as bad as it will get.

Keep in mind our numbers are still lower than the UK's national incidence now, let alone during the last wave which saw some areas hit a 800/900 incidence.

Will they able to police this new rule in Austria? I don't know. I'm originally from Spain where it is the law that you must carry ID on you at all times, from the age of 14. The police sometimes stops you and asks for your ID card and it really isn't a big deal, it's something everyone is used to. Will they implement this strategy or is it simply a PR stunt? I have no idea, but we can't just sit back and watch another full lockdown incoming because we've taken no measures when the first signs arose.

And it's the same in Germany (and maaaany other European countries) about council registration. Of course you register with the council each time you move (there is a big fine if you don't, or take too much time after the move). They need your info for tax, electoral roll, healthcare, and when you get a job you need to provide your address - in the official form you got from the council. Everything is double- and triple-checked here when it comes to paperwork. It's completely normal and people don't feel their liberties are being restricted from having to give the council your address or showing your ID card to the odd policeman on the street.

How did we go from ridiculing the conspiracy theorists and all their nonsense at the beginning, of forced vaccinations and covid passports to this acceptance? Not only the acceptance but people cheering it on and some almost gleeful about living in some kind of police state.
It’s very disturbing.

@Colin56

Going to go against the grain here. Why should the majority of the vaccinated population curtail their freedoms and accept the loss of availability of hospital healthcare just so the unvaccinated can run the risk of infection which we all pay for? I was in France last week and if you dont have a covid pass you dont get in anywhere like restaurants, hairdressers, museums etc. End of. If you dont want to get vaccinated thats fine but then you dont get the chance to partake in vaccinated life. Two years of this because most infection is driven by pools of infected unvaccinated people. Im done with it.

If, it came to a choice between 'locking down' those who were unvaccinated or having a general lockdown, the former should happen before the latter.

It's certainly one way of handling the refuseniks, as they head into winter.

@Serenschintte

I live next door in Switzerland. Austria is incredibly strict and always has been. We decided not to holiday there due to the sheer number of tests we would need to take every 24 hours I think. In practise this is going to be hard to enforce but I’m pretty sure they will fine people to make an example of them. It’s disgraceful. There have been protests all over Europe - regularly since the vaccine passports starts but people don’t really realize because the mainstream media don’t usually report on it.

Why is mainstream media not reporting it?

I keep seeing videos of demonstrations both in Europe, but also Australia and NZ and other places I'm sure - on Twitter. They are big demonstrations - but never reported on MSM.

Why is this?

*Why is mainstream media not reporting it?

I keep seeing videos of demonstrations both in Europe, but also Australia and NZ and other places I'm sure - on Twitter. They are big demonstrations - but never reported on MSM.

Why is this?*

Dons tin foil hat
Because they are peaceful. When it kicks off, it gets reported then... and then people consuming MSM then think all the protests are like that.

@Caspianberg

Also in Austria. It’s not as dramatic as the news makes out in the uk. It’s only two areas so far, and it’s unvaccinated only. For those vaccinated they can carry on as before.

But that's the point. This is segregation and discrimination.

Are Austrian people ok with that?