Vaccines to be compulsory for front line medical staff

[bumbleymummy]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59215282

The covid vaccine, but not the flu vaccine. Although, I suppose the door has been opened for that one now too. They’re being given until spring. I wonder if there will be a massive walk out before winter. If you thought you were going to lose your job come spring, why would you work your ass off all winter? This could majorly backfire.

I work in social care and will lose several colleagues this week over the jab, at a time when we are short staffed already. And its not just carers we are losing, but a cook and a BSA.

I believe in personal choice, as I believe in it for the individuals who use our service, but if care home staff have to be vaccinated it makes sense for NHS staff to be vaccinated too, even if the whole thing doesnt make sense.

I’d just get the jab, unless I had a medical condition that meant I couldn’t have it.

Who can afford to just walk away from their job.

Feels like a move towards privatisation to me.

@bumbleymummy

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59215282

The covid vaccine, but not the flu vaccine. Although, I suppose the door has been opened for that one now too. They’re being given until spring. I wonder if there will be a massive walk out before winter. If you thought you were going to lose your job come spring, why would you work your ass off all winter? This could majorly backfire.

We have been told that mandatory flu vaccines was under consultation. That was a couple of months ago and I haven't heard anything since. That was from the City Council I work for.

Who can afford to just walk away from their job

All the people I know who have left the NHS over the last 10 years have found better paid jobs.

I don’t agree with this either. It should always be a personal choice.
I could understand the pressure if this vaccine stopped transmission but it doesn’t. It protects the vaccinated somewhat from serious illness so it should be a personal choice.
My conspiracy theory friend called me in tears once telling me that ‘they were going to force everyone to get vaccinated including children’
I told her she was being ridiculous and that would never happen but it probably does feel like that to those who don’t want the vaccination but want to keep their jobs.

I just find this loss of bodily autonomy extremely concerning. I'm very pro-vaccine but more pro bodily autonomy.

I work in the NHS. Not "frontline" but I do walk through parts of the hospitals where there are patients, it's impossible not to. Some of those patients are clearly ill, they're having a coffee before they have their chemo appt etc.

There is no part of a hospital where you can "avoid" patients, so I would regard all NHS staff as frontline unless they 100% work from home.

I agree with mandatory vaccination for all NHS staff as do all my colleagues who I have spoken to on this issue. The health of patients comes first, end of discussion.

I'm sure the one's who disagree will make a lot of noise - they'll be all over threads like this as they always are but.......... when push comes to shove, I reckon almost all of them will get the jab. This is what happened in France and it's what will happen here.

And for the ones who don't?

I'm sure there will be vacancies at their local homeothapy clinic that they will be well suited for.

• My conspiracy theory friend called me in tears once telling me that ‘they were going to force everyone to get vaccinated including children’ I told her she was being ridiculous and that would never happen but it probably does feel like that to those who don’t want the vaccination but want to keep their jobs.*

The vaccine passports were also conspiracy theories.

I think it's easy to judge when it's not us in the position that many NHS staff face. Working conditions in the NHS are not exactly fantastic, unsociable hours, low wages etc so they should be making it more appealing to go into this sector not ruin it by leaving it more understaffed.

Regardless of your vaccine status can anyone honestly say if themselves or a loved one needed emergency lifesaving treatment they'd turn down an unvaccinated doctor or nurse?

I'm sure there will be vacancies at their local homeothapy clinic that they will be well suited for

Why do people find it acceptable to have digs at people regarding a choice on a medical procedure?

It's disgusting to be honest and you wouldn't make a shitty comment like that about other procedures.

It's the people who are pro vaccine who are actually being most offensive on this thread. How bad is it that you have to stoop to insults to "encourage" people to comply?

I say this is someone who is vaccinated.

"Why do people find it acceptable to have digs at people regarding a choice on a medical procedure?"

OK - since your so sensitive, let me rephrase:

"There are millions of vacancies in our economy right now, those NHS staff who refuse to be vaccinated will have plenty of jobs to go to."

My point stands. Patients come first, don't accept that, get another job.

@Babdoc

OP there seems a lack of logic in your post. You laud the NHS staff for putting themselves at risk during the pandemic before vaccines were available, but now want to refuse those same vaccines that would protect their lives and those of their patients! As you work in healthcare, why are you anti vaccination? Do you not understand the science? I’m a retired doctor, who was hospitalised with Covid pre- vaccine rollout. My immunity was very short lived - less than 6 months - and there is plenty of evidence of unvaccinated patients suffering repeat Covid infection. You cannot rely on natural immunity, you need vaccines and booster shots. I would have to query the sanity of any hcp who wanted to work unprotected in a high risk environment.

Babdoc, I am not anti-vaccines as I clearly stated in one of my posts. Perhaps you haven’t rtft? I am very against vaccine mandates though.

There are actually several studies showing that immunity after infection lasts 9+ months in the majority and is very broad. Although, yes, it can decline more quickly in older/immunocompromised people (hence their prioritisation for boosters). If you’re retired you are probably around/over 60?

Whether you want to query their sanity or not, I think it should always be a person’s choice to have the vaccine seeing as it is primarily about reducing their own risk of serious illness/death and doesn’t necessarily prevent them from contracting/transmitting the virus. If this was all about the risk to patients then why aren’t they mandating the flu vaccine as well?

@2boysDad

"Why do people find it acceptable to have digs at people regarding a choice on a medical procedure?"

OK - since your so sensitive, let me rephrase:

"There are millions of vacancies in our economy right now, those NHS staff who refuse to be vaccinated will have plenty of jobs to go to."

My point stands. Patients come first, don't accept that, get another job.

But that's not what you said. You made a dig. Why do you think that's acceptable?

I find it hard to believe someone making little digs like that will be able to provide care to someone unvaccinated without being judgemental.

I'm not sensitive, I'm vaccinated so your shitty comment doesn't apply to me. I just don't agree that it is okay.

Honestly I don’t believe all this bullshit about hordes of NHS staff leaving just because of the vaccine!! They’ve been leaving in droves because of low pay and poor working conditions but the vaccine?? Nah vast majority have had it because
A: they are professionals
B: they understand the need for vaccination
C: they are used to providing proof of all sorts of vaccines for their job.

This “they will lose thousands of staff 😱😱”bollocks smells like BS to me.

@MissyB1

Honestly I don’t believe all this bullshit about hordes of NHS staff leaving just because of the vaccine!! They’ve been leaving in droves because of low pay and poor working conditions but the vaccine?? Nah vast majority have had it because A: they are professionals B: they understand the need for vaccination C: they are used to providing proof of all sorts of vaccines for their job.

This “they will lose thousands of staff 😱😱”bollocks smells like BS to me.

C. Is not true.

“But equally there are currently short-term staffing shortages that cannot be planned for due to unvaccinated staff still having to do 10 day isolations if they are a close contact, even if they don't test positive, whereas vaccinated staff don't have to isolate.“

Surely this just means the policy could be changed? Why should healthy people who are testing negative be required to isolate for 10 days? Why aren’t vaccinated people required to test when they could also have the virus?

It has been fairly routine for proof of vaccination for Hep B to be requested for some HCP jobs, so there's a precedent.

@SirGawain

No one will be fired, they just need to get the vacine. I can't see why anyone with half a brain would refuse. And yes i've hard all the FaceBook expert excuses.

This is what I just don't understand. Apparently, the last 18months have been the toughest ever working in the NHS, these people have seen first hand the toll that covid has had on the health service, they have seen the positive effects of the vaccine but then decide nah, I don't want to be part of the solution, I would rather lose my job. That is just bonkers to me! I have quite a lot of health care professionals in my family and every one of them are very pro-vaccine, they have seen what covid can do to people. What has made some health professionals decide not to follow the science on this?

Finally my husband can be a little safer from the bloody anti vax doctor he has to share an office with.

We have to do lft twice a week and pcr every week but that's because we work in care.

@MissyB1

Honestly I don’t believe all this bullshit about hordes of NHS staff leaving just because of the vaccine!! They’ve been leaving in droves because of low pay and poor working conditions but the vaccine?? Nah vast majority have had it because A: they are professionals B: they understand the need for vaccination C: they are used to providing proof of all sorts of vaccines for their job.

This “they will lose thousands of staff 😱😱”bollocks smells like BS to me.

Agree with this. I think it’s more likely to push people already considering leaving out the door (early retirement/people who want a better or easier job) rather than staff leaving in droves. The staffing crisis in the NHS is far more complex than a few antivaxxers leaving. It won’t help but if we go by what happened in France the impact is minimal compared to the overall problem of demographics in western nations.

@bumbleymummy

“But equally there are currently short-term staffing shortages that cannot be planned for due to unvaccinated staff still having to do 10 day isolations if they are a close contact, even if they don't test positive, whereas vaccinated staff don't have to isolate.“

Surely this just means the policy could be changed? Why should healthy people who are testing negative be required to isolate for 10 days? Why aren’t vaccinated people required to test when they could also have the virus?

well I think at one point, maybe still, faully vaccinated staff identified as close contacts did have to test daily for 7 (?) days but could continue to work as long as the tests were negative with one PCR negative also. If that's still the case it's not like they are free to work with no testing. Still leave the staffing problems caused by unvaccinated staff catching Covid and having to self-isolate/be unwell for longer than 10 days/ongoing health issues. As I said, short-term acute staffing shortages are associated with being unvaccinated as well as increased medium-term vacancies...

@Getyourarseofffthequattro
Yes NHS staff are used to providing proof of vaccines, I certainly had to, so did Dh (and was given some that he had missed by Occy health), and so did ds when he started his radiographer training. It’s on the medical forms you fill in when you join - and yes they can check.

Just pointing out for balance, it's not just the vacancies that cause staffing issues.

Feels like a move towards privatisation to me.

I do wonder about this. “Let’s collapse the nhs and let private companies sweep in to save the day!”

The health of patients comes first, end of discussion.

Ok, how does the vaccine protect the health of your patients when you can still contract/transmit the virus when vaccinated but because you’re vaccinated, you don’t have to take regular tests? How is that better/safer than an unvaccinated person who is tested regularly?