Vaccines to be compulsory for front line medical staff

[bumbleymummy]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59215282

The covid vaccine, but not the flu vaccine. Although, I suppose the door has been opened for that one now too. They’re being given until spring. I wonder if there will be a massive walk out before winter. If you thought you were going to lose your job come spring, why would you work your ass off all winter? This could majorly backfire.

The lower paid you are the easier it is to get another job so I guess it depends on the demographic of the people who work in the NHS who haven't had the vaccination how many leave, much more likely if you earn £25k than £90k. I had a low paid office job (£25k) and left because I didn't want to wfh, it would have been a harder decision if I had been highly paid

[quote MissyB1]@Getyourarseofffthequattro
Yes NHS staff are used to providing proof of vaccines, I certainly had to, so did Dh (and was given some that he had missed by Occy health), and so did ds when he started his radiographer training. It’s on the medical forms you fill in when you join - and yes they can check.[/quote]
Not for all roles! And only usually hep b for those roles that need it. Some trusts don't mandate any vaccines. It's not all vaccs for all trusts for all roles. Not even close.

@lunar1

Finally my husband can be a little safer from the bloody anti vax doctor he has to share an office with.

Why is he not safe? Has your husband not been vaccinated?

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

I'm sure there will be vacancies at their local homeothapy clinic that they will be well suited for

Why do people find it acceptable to have digs at people regarding a choice on a medical procedure?

It's disgusting to be honest and you wouldn't make a shitty comment like that about other procedures.

It's the people who are pro vaccine who are actually being most offensive on this thread. How bad is it that you have to stoop to insults to "encourage" people to comply?

I say this is someone who is vaccinated.

I think it is fairly new to be honest to refer to getting a vaccine as 'a medical procedure'. I have never in my life heard of someone saying that they brought their 6-month-old to the Dr for a medical procedure when talking about them getting their jabs. Or people saying that they need a medical procedure to protect against malaria on their holidays. Or my 13 year old had a medical procedure today at school to protect against cervical cancer.

It only appears to be the covid vaccination that anti vaxxers have suddenly decided needs the title of 'medical procedure', what other procedures would you be comparing a jab with when you say It's disgusting to be honest and you wouldn't make a shitty comment like that about other procedures.?

[quote MissyB1]@Getyourarseofffthequattro
Yes NHS staff are used to providing proof of vaccines, I certainly had to, so did Dh (and was given some that he had missed by Occy health), and so did ds when he started his radiographer training. It’s on the medical forms you fill in when you join - and yes they can check.[/quote]
Yes they ask which vaccines you've had and offer others but it's not legally compulsory. Trusts set their own vaccine policies currently. This is the first covered by law.

@stopposting “Still leave the staffing problems caused by unvaccinated staff catching Covid and having to self-isolate/be unwell for longer than 10 days/ongoing health issues.”

But if vaccinated people get the virus, they have to stay off too.

@lunar1

Finally my husband can be a little safer from the bloody anti vax doctor he has to share an office with.

Whatever does he do that your DH doesn't feel safe, does he threaten him

What is it then if it's not a medical procedure @Mynameismargot ?

You go to a medical professional... It's not a contentious comment to make. It's pretty self explanatory.

Any other medical procedure - treatment or preventative treatment.

I don't think this can be compared to the flu vaccine which changes every year. Despite the different variations of covid this is the same vaccine that they are saying we will need every 6 months as immunity wanes. What about the side effects it is giving people. Anecdotal evidence I know but HCPs in my trust who were previously infected prior to vaccinations had far worse side effects (many having to take time off work), which to my mind shows our bodies' defences are working whether our antibodies have waned or not (T cells and all that). Personally I got covid March 2020, could not work for a year (not paid as semi retired and bank so on zero hours contract but that's a whole other thread!) took one AZ vaccine early this year as I wanted to go back to work and terrified of getting it again, felt worse than when I originally started with covid! I did plenty of research and as many European countries were counting you fully vaxed if you had covid plus one vaccination I declined the second one. Not entirely sure where this leaves me in all this🤷 but I certainly don't fancy being that ill every 6 months for a vaccine which still allows people to catch covid and pass it on!

@Topseyt

I think it is sensible. Some frontline medical staff do already have to have a certain vaccination status for other illnesses such as hepatitis. Why not for Covid 19?

It won't necessarily cause mass walkouts. Some people are just a lot of hot air that way.

One of my mother's carers was very anti the Covid 19 vaccine and adamant that she wouldn't be getting it. As soon as the government made it compulsory that carers had it by October or would be unable to continue working in their roles she backed down and got her vaccine. I doubt she was the only one.

I think it is a perfectly fair requirement.

I agree.

It's bad enough that so many people in the general populace aren't getting vaccinated, but for people on the frontline working with vulnerable patients not to do it is just ridiculous!

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

What is it then if it's not a medical procedure *@Mynameismargot* ?

You go to a medical professional... It's not a contentious comment to make. It's pretty self explanatory.

Any other medical procedure - treatment or preventative treatment.

So you compare getting your kids immunised to a kid get an operation on their cleft palate? You would say yes, my child had a medical procedure this week too, they got their jabs?

Have you seen getting immunised being referred to as a 'medical procedure' in common discourse prior to the anti vaxxers clinging onto that phrasing when it comes to the covid vaccine? If not why do you think that is?

@lunar1

Finally my husband can be a little safer from the bloody anti vax doctor he has to share an office with.

What a strange comment. In what way is your husband at risk from this Dr? If your DH is vaccinated it shouldn’t matter, if anything he is probably more of a risk to his unvaccinated colleague.

Hep B protection is 10 years then a booster. You might me offered a booster for polio, diphtheria and something else I can’t remember while they’ve got you there.

@Mynameismargot look up the definition of medical procedure. Of course some procedures are more serious or more intrusive but they're all procedures.

A triple heart bypass is a procedure and so is getting a small cut stitched. Are they both as serious as one another? No. Are they both procedures by definition?

Yes.

And yes I have because the definition of medical procedure has existed long before COVID.

I am not an anti vaxxer.

I have recently left the NHS and while I’m very glad I did, pay and conditions is much poorer outside. You’ll have to work another ten years at least and won’t get anywhere like the pension. I don’t know why anyone would make the choice rather than get a safe vaccine. It’s silly.

You cant force people to have a jab if it's against their wishes - forcing medical procedures on people?! Fuck that!
If your job requires it, leave, we work to live not live to work. There's been mass walk outs in Public service jobs in America.
Everytime a politician moves their lips they're lying. Like heck will I let the state have autonomy over my body.

I am not a HCP, in fact I am retired, but there is nothing I can say that has not already been said on here about the pointlessness of this mandate, and I can understand why so many are angry about it. The thought of what this is going to do to our already devastated health service is terrifying. I have an elderly mother in a care home, and I am similarly terrified of what is going to happen in that sector.

Can’t staff have their immunity checked for hepatitis and they don’t need to have the vaccine if they’re already immune?

www.solent.nhs.uk/media/1257/healthcare-workers-screening-and-immunisation-policy.pdf

“Health Care Workers (HCW) joining the Trust who will have direct contact with patient’s blood or other body fluids/ tissues, must provide documentary evidence of satisfactory hepatitis B antibody levels (anti-HBs >10mIU/mL) or must undergo testing and/or hepatitis B immunisation.”

I'm completely against mandating Covid vaccines for anybody in any group. It'll cause more harm than good.

I was horrified to hear from an Australian friend that at her GP surgery of 4 doctors, 3 are now off work because they've refused to have the vaccine. These are intelligent, highly educated people. Why are they refusing? Can Australia (and England!) afford to just lay doctors off when they are such essential workers?

Re the use of the term 'medical procedure', vaccines were deemed medical procedures pre covid, in the same way as various terminologies have been used in relation to viruses pre Covid. We're simply seeing the term being used more now because everyone's obsessed with vaccination and all other things Covid. It's not that anything has fundamentally changed, it's that everyone is now an armchair Covid expert!

@Thewiseoneincognito, my husband is a doctor, he is also high risk, having several underlying conditions. He has worked on the front line through the pandemic, never having the grace to work from home.

So yes he is vaccinated, and every single measure that can protect him is a positive in my book. Removing someone unvaccinated from his office, where there are no windows can only be a good thing.

I think it is outrageous that anyone should be forced to get a vaccine they don’t want. I could understand if more if it actually stopped you getting Covid or passing it on but it doesn’t (speaking as someone who has had 2 vaccines and recently caught Covid). It’s supposed to protect the individual from the severity of illness. I would be much more in favour of regular testing instead. My DM is in a care home, she caught Covid in April 2020 and was looked after by carers with minimal PPE who pretty much saved for life. Are we now saying that all those nurses / Drs / carers who did so much before vaccines should now lose their job because they want to chose what goes into their bodies? And for everyone happy about this, where does it end? School children made to have it to go to school etc? The NHS and care homes are already chronically understaffed, it’s a ridiculous idea!

[quote Getyourarseofffthequattro]@Mynameismargot look up the definition of medical procedure. Of course some procedures are more serious or more intrusive but they're all procedures.

A triple heart bypass is a procedure and so is getting a small cut stitched. Are they both as serious as one another? No. Are they both procedures by definition?

Yes.

And yes I have because the definition of medical procedure has existed long before COVID.

I am not an anti vaxxer.[/quote]
You may say your child is getting a medical procedure at school when they are getting vaccinated but to pretend it is common phrasing is ridiculous. We both know why you and anti vaxxers use that phrasing, it is to make it sound 'bigger' than it is when in reality it is no 'bigger' than taking a paracetomol or antibiotics or one of the countless medicines people take daily and the fact that it is injected rather than swallowed may make it technically a medical procedure doesn't change that.

And you don't need to tell me you are not an anti vaxxer, it won't change my view of your posts in any way.

My DM is in a care home, she caught Covid in April 2020 and was looked after by carers with minimal PPE who pretty much saved for life. Are we now saying that all those nurses / Drs / carers who did so much before vaccines should now lose their job because they want to chose what goes into their bodies?

I agree. They were good enough to do the job before vaccines, now they’ll just be got rid of. It just shows how little these staff are valued. Yes, patients matter, but so do the staff.