Vaccines to be compulsory for front line medical staff

[bumbleymummy]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59215282

The covid vaccine, but not the flu vaccine. Although, I suppose the door has been opened for that one now too. They’re being given until spring. I wonder if there will be a massive walk out before winter. If you thought you were going to lose your job come spring, why would you work your ass off all winter? This could majorly backfire.

Yes, that’s what I thought. When you said report a positive test I thought you meant report it yourself (lateral flow).

The vaccine discussion is starting from the assumption that they are necessary. I don’t think this should be the starting point. We first need to find out if they are necessary.

I’d like to know EXACTLY how many covid infections were registered by NHS staff. I’d like to know if those infection numbers reduced after the vaccines roll out and if so, by how much? If they were, how can you prove that they were reduced by the the vaccine or natural immunity?

What are we going to do when NHS staff continue to get covid after being vaccinated, because as we know, people who are fully vaxxed are still getting it. What’s the plan to deal with that?

Disabled people made up 6 in 10

The gov want to rinse the current workforce for all they are worth to get through the winter crisis. Then sack them in April. I am sure all the staff will be fine. All the claps you gave them on your door step can be saved up and used as food vouchers later on.

I mean, it's not as if we don't have a huuuge NHS backlog for non Covid diagnosis and treatment (which can't be tackled properly whilst hospitals are busy with Covid patients). And then there's all the Long COVID cases building up.

Staff numbers are already down due to those who died from COVID, plus others now off sick with Long Covid and/or PTSD.

Good caring staff will be as needed in April as they are now.

[quote littlebilliie]I think if we all get vaccinated this will pass into history. Italy is not taking any chances

www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/17/1038240183/italy-vaccine-health-pass-for-employees?t=1636578866521[/quote]
I wonder whether the Catholic value for life has influenced Italy's sensible mitigation measures?

@Tealightsandd Valuing life doesn’t sit easily with coercing vaccination and denying bodily autonomy.

[quote CurlyGirlsMum]@Tealightsandd Valuing life doesn’t sit easily with coercing vaccination and denying bodily autonomy.[/quote]
Agreed

[quote CurlyGirlsMum]@Tealightsandd Valuing life doesn’t sit easily with coercing vaccination and denying bodily autonomy.[/quote]
With rights come responsibilities.

One person's right to refuse a life and health saving vaccine (which they remain entitled to do) shouldn't trump someone else's right to choose who to employ. And it definitely shouldn't come above other people's right to life.

When it comes to bodily autonomy issues let's start with an adult debate on narcotics. It might be safer to take the business away from violent gangs, legalise, tax, and ensure users and addicts have access to safe medicinal doses with no additional addictives bulking it out - therefore knowing that the dangers are mitigated against as much as possible.

www.channel4.com/news/care-homes-will-struggle-to-get-staff-over-mandatory-covid-vaccines-says-national-care-association-chair

@Tealightsandd The rights you mention go both ways. Right to an infection-free environment, important. Right to refuse a vaccine which has unknown long-term effects, also important.

Giving up the right to determine what happens to our bodies is a major change which we have slid into. I do not think the end result will be positive.

Like I said on the Mandatory Vaccination thread, the answer to unsafe care is to improve pay and working conditions. We need to value these vital jobs and attract the most suitable staff for the roles.

I have suggested funding options at 17.08 and 17.17 on that thread.

No-one is giving up the right to refuse the vaccine. Equally employers must have the right to choose who they employ.

I think we should talk about rights. What happened to people’s rights when they were given blanket Dnrs and denied basic care?

www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/20201204%20DNACPR%20Interim%20Report%20-%20FINAL.pdf

Giving up the right to determine what happens to our bodies is a major change which we have slid into.

We don't currently have this right. For example, many drugs are illegal. As is assisted suicide (in the UK).

[quote FlorenciaFlora]I think we should talk about rights. What happened to people’s rights when they were given blanket Dnrs and denied basic care?

www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/20201204%20DNACPR%20Interim%20Report%20-%20FINAL.pdf[/quote]
It was definitely very wrong to do blanket DNRs including, I believe, for young learning disabled people.

You're right. That shouldn't happen.

Why do people not get that distinction with regard to Bodily autonomy. That no one should ever be able to coerce you into putting something in to your body without your informed consent, it's part of medical ethics apart from anything else.

Why do people not get that in a healthcare setting, it is not appropriate to increase the risk of infection to your colleagues and coworkers, or to the vulnerable patients allegedly in your care.

No-one is being coerced, they are being told this is the upcoming rule and if by April 1st people are so deeply concerned about their sovereign rights, their bodily autonomy, and their tinfoil hats that they cannot bring themselves to be vaccinated against a pandemic causing virus, then they will have to seek other work.

I think April 1st is ridiculous. In other countries and where I live these mandates are brought in far more swiftly. Winter, as anyone in health care knows, is a dicey time to put gasoline to a fire in a healthcare setting, by having a partially vaccinated population at large and a partially vaccinated work force caring for those who fall ill, require surgery, or are injured and vulnerable.

Well, we shall see what happens later on on the 11th.

Probably loads of people rubbing their hands in glee at unvaccinated care workers getting fired. And the same people moaning about the lack of staff in the care sector.

Good

It would be interesting to see what happens if the thousands of people being unfairly dismissed decide to march on London and do something like a hunger strike.
If the government are sacking people they need to accept more people are going to need Dole money and council houses.

Is this just for nhs staff or for all those working in any and all care

@Topseyt

What happened to the clapping?

The clapping was silly and embarrassing. As many health care workers themselves said. Decent pay rises would have been more appropriate.

Does anyone know what happened to all the money raised by Major Tom?

The biggest risk factor for covid is being in an institution, and disabled people accounted for 6 in 10 deaths. A virus cannot know you have a learning disability like autism or no legs for Christ sake. Something was different was happening in those institutions that contributed to those figures and it’s obvious what it was.

These blanket DNRs did not happen by accident, they were ordered by the government. And they were part of a much bigger picture of removing safeguarding for the most vulnerable people including

Making changes to controlled drug rules
Changing the law on death certificates
Changing the law about post mortems requirements
Giving indemnity to staff looking after covid patients
Banning visitors.

Many vulnerable people died unnecessarily and not because of covid but because they were denied basic care. Amnesty international have done a report that is extremely disturbing.

It’s my opinion that something similar to the Liverpool pathway was occurring and many people share that view although they are too scared to say. We should not accept any medical mandates from this government until we have looked into this.

Why do people not get that in a healthcare setting, it is not appropriate to increase the risk of infection to your colleagues and coworkers, or to the vulnerable patients allegedly in your care.

If you are not infected, you are not increasing the risk to anyone. An unvaccinated person who is not infected is not putting anyone at risk. A vaccinated person can still put their patients at risk if they become infected.

I’m sure someone is going to come along and say the pandemic was awful and people had to made difficult decisions and no one knew what they were doing.

Only they did. Because they had prepared for it in 2017. And they had already decided they were going to refuse care to certain groups of people in the case of a pandemic.

cygnusreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Pandemic-Influenza-Briefing-Paper-NHS-Surge-and-Triage.pdf

Nobody can be surprised that considering the amount of lying, manipulation and dodgy contracts that have happened that some people do not trust the government with their health.

@bumbleymummy

Why do people not get that in a healthcare setting, it is not appropriate to increase the risk of infection to your colleagues and coworkers, or to the vulnerable patients allegedly in your care.

If you are not infected, you are not increasing the risk to anyone. An unvaccinated person who is not infected is not putting anyone at risk. A vaccinated person can still put their patients at risk if they become infected.

Yes it seems to need to be spelt out . The person at risk is the unvaccinated person!

Giving up the right to determine what happens to our bodies is a major change which we have slid into. I do not think the end result will be positive

Mandatory vaccination had a VERY positive outcome for the eradication of smallpox.