Vaccines to be compulsory for front line medical staff

[bumbleymummy]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59215282

The covid vaccine, but not the flu vaccine. Although, I suppose the door has been opened for that one now too. They’re being given until spring. I wonder if there will be a massive walk out before winter. If you thought you were going to lose your job come spring, why would you work your ass off all winter? This could majorly backfire.

@Sarahschild

Ok. Well if you are comfortable to sit under a government that treats it’s people this way, then that surprises me. I wish you well.

@Sarahschild it's mass radicalisation purely and simply. The loss of medical autonomy is absolutely horrifying.

You believe what you want to believe @Dishhh. I haven’t really seen much fact out of you on this thread, just the standard response to anyone unhappy with this awful oppressive situation - I.e. “oh you must be making everything up and you’re clearly an anti-vaxxer” comments. You don’t really give any facts yourself, just try to make out other posters are providing disinformation and must be making stuff up. Adverse vaccine reporting is available in most countries and is FACT.

@MareofBeasttown, but being vaccinated doesn’t stop you sending anyone vulnerable into ICU either! Even if it’s accepted that being vaccinated reduces spread (questionable based on data from hugely vaccinated countries like Israel and Austria), it’s even been admitted by Fauci that being vaccinated doesn’t stop spread and how many on here have personal experience of catching covid whilst vaccinated and passing it to family members? In fact some of the only adults I know in real life who haven’t yet had covid are unvaccinated!

Isn't there a liability issue for employers about activities that can increase your risk of illness or injury? For example, in a factory, you have to wear their safety equipment to enter the factory floor, or you don't work. (And you also have to take daily LFTs in some factories because you work in close proximity to others)

I view any employer mandating the Covid vaccine as similar. If your work is likely to put you at risk of catching Covid, then they will want you to take available precautions to minimise the risk of becoming ill as a result of the job.

I view any employer mandating the Covid vaccine as similar. If your work is likely to put you at risk of catching Covid, then they will want you to take available precautions to minimise the risk of becoming ill as a result of the job

There’s a big difference though between them wanting the staff to be vaccinated and forcing the staff to be vaccinated.

As another person said, there are risks with the Covid vaccine and where there are risks involved there should always a be a choice.

I’m a fully vaccinated nurse and work with many other vaccinated HCPs but I work with a lot of unvaccinated ones too.

It should be a choice. Forcing someone to do something that they believe is a risk to their heath, by telling them they’ll otherwise be sacked, is disgusting.

@Knownbyanothername

I think this is a good idea. Get everyone vaccinated who works on the frontline with the clinically vulnerable. It’s not the testing which is stopping deaths, it’s the vaccine.

Yes, it is stopping deaths because it reduces the risk of serious illness/death in the person who has it. It doesn’t not prevent transmission so a vaccinated person with clinically vulnerable people could still pass on the virus if they become infected.

@Hairbrush123

Apparently 2/3rd of French healthcare workers were vaccinated and Macron made it mandatory from there on for healthcare workers to be vaccinated and less than 1% left their job because of it

Same in South Australia, 1% - 400 from 40, 000 workers.

@MareofBeasttown

We don't accept discrimination based on race, religion, sexual orientation and sex because being a black lesbian Hindu is not infectious and does not send a vulnerable person into the ICU.

Neither does being an uninfected unvaccinated person.

And an infected vaccinated person could also send a vulnerable person to ICU.

Sure. But vaxxed people are less likely to be infected.

So? If they’re infected, they’re infected. They’re still a risk. Why is it ok for them to work with vulnerable patients but not an unvaccinated person who is not infected/is immune after previous infection?

Rosehip10
Any NHS hand-wringers saying "i'll leave then!" is just posturing, when faced with universal credit or minimum wage, zero benefits work, they will be vaccinated.

Are they not pretty much on minimum wage already?

As a full time GP receptionist and administrator I can concur. I have had three vaccines. I don't know what the position will be for those working in such roles if they decline the vaccine. But I cannot imagine for a moment anyone will want to do the job if the leave. It's relentless. The abuse is a daily occurrence. The hours are long. And all for minimum wage. I work because I want to be in work. I like work. But for every extra £1 I earn I think 86p is deducted from universal credit. I'm not much better off in full time work.

I guess your solution is PCRs every week for everyone vaxxed or not? I don't think LFTs are effective enough. Has that been done wt HCPs anywhere across the world? I have not Googled.

"I work in a residential home. From the 11/11 we won’t be able to let anyone in the home who hasn’t been double jabbed. We have district nurses coming in daily to do insulin injections, dressings, etc. What’s gonna happen with those who haven’t had the vaccine?"

A massive worry. The narrative is always about hospital settings. Loss of community staff would be disastrous.

I guess your solution is PCRs every week for everyone vaxxed or not? I don't think LFTs are effective enough. Has that been done wt HCPs anywhere across the world? I have not Googled.

Where I work, there was a time where nurses were required to do routine LFTs three times a week, however, it stopped after about 2 months because the wards couldn’t cope with asymptomatic but positive staff going off sick for 10 days.

It was all smoke and mirrors….the NHS doing it “for the good of the patients”….but ultimately, when it was realised that staff were frequently having to take 10 days off work, it all got stopped.

Hopefully, Liz Truss when she isn't sunning herself in Thailand will be doing the rounds of developing countries in Africa and the Philippines etc hoping to nick their trained medical staff with quickie NHS visas to fill the backstop to replace all the EU ones who have left.

Or Boris launches into;

"I have to put it to the British People that post-Covid there is a limit to what the state and our beloved NHS can and should do and that ultimately responsibility for your health and social care for your families lies with you and here's a £1000 voucher to those that qualify for the support!

Good luck and don't forget to get your vaccines! "

ps. we won't nick Grannies house but then we won't help granny either!

waves flags and fade...

@MareofBeasttown

I guess your solution is PCRs every week for everyone vaxxed or not? I don't think LFTs are effective enough. Has that been done wt HCPs anywhere across the world? I have not Googled.

Why could we only do it if other countries have?

It would be a logistical nighmare. I expect Boris is looking at other countries who have made the vax compulsory and not lost a significant no of HCPs. Anyway we shall see...

I am extra passionate and vocal about this issue because I know where it leads and the uk needs to stand against this introduction.
It starts with mandated vaccines for care home and healthcare staff but as in all other counties where they have done the same, it soon leads to mandatory vaccines for all public facing staff, then staff of larger companies and then domestic vaccine passports for all. It is already written into government guidelines that you won’t be able to self exempt from vaccination from a certain date in December. They then mute that free lateral flow tests are costing taxpayers money and start to close those so that the only option for unvaccinated is costly tests every 3 days.
Be aware though, as someone earlier said, these mandations never apply to politicians and politicians places of work or to diplomats or police and law and order. What does that tell you?

@MareofBeasttown

It would be a logistical nighmare. I expect Boris is looking at other countries who have made the vax compulsory and not lost a significant no of HCPs. Anyway we shall see...

So this is justified because testing (which people have actually had to do in some places for well over a year now) would be a ‘logistical nightmare’? I’m pretty sure people would put up with the logistics if it meant they could keep their job tbh.

My DMs care home are already chronically understaffed, I really worry about what is going to happen now these rules have been brought in. I would rather she be looked after by an unvaccinated carer than no carer. Also the rules for the vaccinated are crazy and make no sense. When my DD caught Covid, I could still have visited my mum in the care home because I’m double vaccinated. I decided not to as we had a positive case in the house & thank goodness I didn’t as I was already positive by that point (confirmed by PCR that I didn’t receive until a few days later), with no symptoms at that point and negative on an LFT. So I as a vaccinated person could have gone into the care home and spread it to my DM and other residents! It makes no sense at all! If I hadn’t been vaccinated I would have had to self isolate and prevented further transmission. And if other people think this isn’t going to become mandatory for other jobs and school kids I think they are kidding themselves.

Yes, we won't agree on anything vax related, @bumbleymummy. Let's leave it at that.:)

What I have learnt from MN is that if you repeat "The vaccines do not stop all transmission" many times, you can obscure the fact that they stop most transmission and then slowly segue to "The vaccines do not stop transmission" by some posters upthread. Perfect solutions do not exist in this world.

And I’m 50, double vaccinated and have had Covid. I do not want the booster, or the one I will be offered in 6 months or the one after that. They are changing the goal posts constantly and everyone just seems to be happy with that without looking at the bigger picture. A friend of mine still has severe vertigo 5 months after her 2nd jab. She’s still signed off work and has a 2 year wait to see a specialist. She obviously doesn’t want the booster, what about people like her? Why should she eventually lose the ability to go into a pub / restaurant / cinema etc (not that she can anyway as she’s too ill) because that’s the way it’s going. This is just the start.

But those of us you dismiss as anti-vaxxers @MareofBeasttown aren’t really all that bothered with the vaccinated spread argument. We are merely trying to point out that ultimately the vaccine protects the person who is vaccinated and that should be enough. As the vaccine does not completely stop spread, no matter what the inhibition rate, vaccine mandates and passports are instantly rendered useless and a total encroachment on bodily autonomy and choice. People who want the protection have the choice of a free of charge vaccine and seemingly as many as they like every 6 months. People who weigh up their risk differently must have the choice to decide for themselves personally.

As available in Canadian statistics, the risk of covid is NOT the same for the whole population. Therefore the risk to benefit ratio changes the younger you get and therefore people should be entitled to make that decision for themselves.

@Turquoisesea Agree with you that this is just the start. I am amazed that people are not standing up for basic bodily autonomy. Where does this lead?

Singapore announced yesterday that the unvaccinated will have to pay for their covid-related healthcare. A lot of people approved. Have they thought about what comes next? Logically, the next step is to charge people for their healthcare if the smoke, are overweight, drink, take part in dangerous sports.

Support one form of discrimination and you may yourself open to being a victim of the next form.