What I don't understand about anti-vaxxers is...

[CanadianJohn]

What I don't understand about anti-vaxxers is how malevolent some of them are. If I decided I didn't want a covid jab, I certainly wouldn't picket hospitals and health centres. Recently an elected legislator in Manitoba faced a demonstration of about 30 people at her home, and someone left a noose on her lawn. www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/life/health/alberta-politician-angry-after-covid-19-protesters-leave-gallows-noose-at-her-house-575661242.html

A recent news story on booster jabs provoked dozens of responses poking fun at "sheeple" and referencing Big Phama and similar themes.

Why are so many people so vitriolic about the vaccine?

Thalidomide scandal...
What if the Covid drug does something in a decade?

Can’t everyone just respect everyone else’s choices? Why does it have to be us vs them, no good will come of it.
Regardless of peoples thoughts on the vaccine the fact that we are being separated by those who can go out/socialise/holiday and have a normal life and those who have to find new jobs, can’t socialise in pubs, can’t go on the family holiday etc is appalling.

@Bollindger

Thalidomide scandal... What if the Covid drug does something in a decade?

Firstly, how long ago was that? My aunt was born around the same time and is over 50. Lots of things have changed.

But also, why a decade? Do you refuse any medical treatment that has been used for less than 10 years?

They’ve protested outside my daughters school.

Utter cunts for that, how fucking dare they try and intimidate kids with lies. She brought the leaflet home, we went through it and very quickly debunked it.

I can’t get my head round not having the vax (if you can), I would also be the first to protest against mandatory vaccines, it’s a choice, as it should be.
Dont start bringing your lies to the school gates, don’t intimate kids who may already be concerned about it. I’d be less annoyed if their leaflet was at least factual.

Extremists on both sides are equally objectionable.

What lies were on the leaflet? I haven’t seen any anti-vaxx leaflets outside school or otherwise so I’m curious.

If you google anti vax leaflets uk you’ll find some examples.

The leaflet said you wouldn’t download an untested app why would you take an untested vaccine. It also had a QR code on there to link to more lies about children not being at risk of covid, questioning future fertility issues.

There’s some of them on here

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/antivaxxers-covid-vaccine-telegram-leaflets-b1917305.html%3famp

@HesterShaw1

Extremists on both sides are equally objectionable.

I agree with that.

And outside school is no place for either of them

Well I’m sure there are plenty of you go googling, I was just wondering what was on the ones being handed out outside Evil pea’s school.

Sorry have not read whole thread.

But they do it because they genuinely believe the vaccine (usually vaccines in general, not just this one) is harmful and they are scared/upset that so many people are (as they see it) being "hoodwinked" into believing it's good. They are upset about vaccine related deaths and side effects, and some deaths which are most likely unrelated but are being spread around social media saying that they are.

I think they are wrong and I could go round and round poking holes in the arguments of antivaxxers all day if I had the mental energy, but this is what the ones on my FB feel. They are not evil. They are really concerned worried people who (IMO) have been misled, ironically just as they believe the rest of us have.

What if the Covid drug does something in a decade?

It won't. Major side effects from vaccines show up quickly because they would be caused by an immune response. There has been more detailed study of these vaccines than any in human history.

NY are offering children $100 if they have the vaccine. Shocking.

Why is that shocking? The costs of sickness, absence waiting for test results and public health measures to reduce spread are enormous.

Once you get vaccination rates above 80-90% covid doesn't spread fast enough to get major outbreaks. If you could pay a fixed amount to get your region to that point it's probably a bargain.

@Whendidthishappen

A few posts on MN us very different to picket hospitals or turning up at people's homes.

I, personally, know one of these conspiracy theorists. Due to who they are I can't cut contact yet. But I have heard alot. From my experience they hard core anti vaxers really believe they are right and they are just more clever than those who do have the jab. They see it as their calling to 'educate' others. Then they start getting angry people won't bow down and admit how stupid they are and how enlightened the anti vaxer is. Then they start acting out of that anger.

Yes. This rings many bells for me.

Anyone on MN mentioning they are unvaccinated gets jumped on.

It's just a pet peeve of the site. MN is similar about people who park across drives, have affairs or abandon their children.

People are desperate for life to get back to normal, so it's not surprising that those who are stopping herd immunity get grief.

@donquixotedelamancha

NY are offering children $100 if they have the vaccine. Shocking.

Why is that shocking? The costs of sickness, absence waiting for test results and public health measures to reduce spread are enormous.

Once you get vaccination rates above 80-90% covid doesn't spread fast enough to get major outbreaks. If you could pay a fixed amount to get your region to that point it's probably a bargain.

It would be more effective to offer it to 50/60+ you know the people who actually get really sick and. could die…

Bollindger

Thalidomide scandal...
What if the Covid drug does something in a decade?

It wasn't a vaccine.
It was 50 years ago, legislation, controls, checks are light years from that dreadful time.
The vaccine wears off after 6 months, we are having boosters now, how could it affect you in a decade if it wanes after 6 months?

@Bollindger

Thalidomide scandal... What if the Covid drug does something in a decade?

Bollindger thalidomide is a drug not a vaccine. Vaccines don't take years and years to show up any problems because they elicit immune responses which are seen very short-term. People who say they don't trust the vaccine because they haven't seen long-term effects don't fully understand the science behind how a vaccine works, I'm afraid.

It would be more effective to offer it to 50/60+ you know the people who actually get really sick and. could die…

No, that's not how herd immunity works.

I would assume they figure that 100 dollars is more persuasive to the young. They probably also don't want to reward those who have been eligible previously but haven't had it.

The numbers of CEV people who have refused the vaccine will define naturally over time anyway.

*that should be decline naturally.

@donquixotedelamancha

It would be more effective to offer it to 50/60+ you know the people who actually get really sick and. could die…

No, that's not how herd immunity works.

I would assume they figure that 100 dollars is more persuasive to the young. They probably also don't want to reward those who have been eligible previously but haven't had it.

The numbers of CEV people who have refused the vaccine will define naturally over time anyway.

But @donquixotedelamancha, the vaccines cannot lead to herd immunity. This has been stated now even by the most mainstream, vaccine-enthusiastic of scientists and politicians. We were told at one stage that they would (when we were told - mistakenly - that they would prevent most cases), but it simply can't be the case when people who've had the jab readily get and pass on the virus.

@Bollindger

Thalidomide scandal... What if the Covid drug does something in a decade?

The messenger type of vaccine has been tested on humans for over ten years. Mice since the 90’s and researched since the 60’s/70’s.

@donquixotedelamancha

Anyone on MN mentioning they are unvaccinated gets jumped on.

It's just a pet peeve of the site. MN is similar about people who park across drives, have affairs or abandon their children.

People are desperate for life to get back to normal, so it's not surprising that those who are stopping herd immunity get grief.

Since when has giving people grief for not getting the vaccine actually convinced them to get it?

For me, the argument they make only involves how they get disadvantaged by not getting vaccinated. They can't do this, they can't do that. That is all.
So I feel like they want to destroy the chance of children getting vaccinated. Not because they care or worry, but because it will increase the number of people being vaccinated.
Some parents want to get their children vaccinated, to reduce the risk. But they all claim children rarely die. That's not only worry for many parents. They get damaged brain, heart, lungs, etc. Many have long lasting issues.
I just wish they just worry about their own choice, and stop jeopardizing the choice for those who want them.

My elderly aunt has turned down the vaccine.

She has gone a little conspiracy mad in the last few years, but luckily she doesn't have the Internet so largely makes them up.
She thinks WiFi fries children's brains.

At the heart of it all she is old and alone and isn't worried about dying, so that argument won't change her mind.
She believes in covid though and doesn't see many people, wears a mask etc.

My point is that people who refuse the vaccine are all different and can't just be dismissed as anti-vaxers.