What I don't understand about anti-vaxxers is...

[CanadianJohn]

What I don't understand about anti-vaxxers is how malevolent some of them are. If I decided I didn't want a covid jab, I certainly wouldn't picket hospitals and health centres. Recently an elected legislator in Manitoba faced a demonstration of about 30 people at her home, and someone left a noose on her lawn. www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/life/health/alberta-politician-angry-after-covid-19-protesters-leave-gallows-noose-at-her-house-575661242.html

A recent news story on booster jabs provoked dozens of responses poking fun at "sheeple" and referencing Big Phama and similar themes.

Why are so many people so vitriolic about the vaccine?

Just because he has letters behind his name doesn’t automatically mean his research is correct.

You know that will apply to all scientists on every side of the discussion - Trixie?

Yes, of course. That’s why it’s good to read a number of articles on these matters. However Doshi has managed to get himself a job as assistant editor of that particular website so can post what he chooses, he’s posting opinions mainly and not verified research. There’s a lot of articles countering his claims and providing very compelling evidence to show that many of his views are incorrect.

Also BMJ is the equivalent to the daily Mail of medical journals and Peter Doshi is an anthropologist not an virologist.

Trixie - I think if he was properly dubious someone at the BMJ would have noticed that he was posting "non verified research" by now. It can't just be you that's noticed this ...

Someone who had the power to sack him would have done too. It wouldn't be in the interest of the BMJ to have someone of the sort (you suggest) to be an assistant editor there.

You're working very hard to discredit Doshi Trixie

I've never heard that the BMJ is the equivalent of the Daily Mail. Please could you give us some verification of this.

[quote AngelaBlack]@Trixiefirecracker the data is there. I have screenshot 2021 and 2020 figures for comparison on week 43.[/quote]
Thanks for the screenshots, should have thought of that. Yes, you do have to dig for it, which is interesting in itself. If as a country we'd abandoned fire protections in schools and 7 children had died in school fires in a week I think we'd probably be hearing a lot more about it via the newspapers.

I haven't seen more recent data yet. I hope the trend doesn't continue but there isn't anything stopping children catching covid in schools so we'll see. Has anyone's school got CO2 monitors yet? Neither of mine do, and as the weather gets colder the temptation to close the windows will increase.

The comparison with 2020 is really interesting too. To be honest I was a bit sceptical about how useful 'bubbles' were, although the isolating of close contacts was clearly important, but it seems the mitigations we had in schools in 2020 really did work to protect children.

@theemperorhasnoclothes it took me a few attempts to find the right data tbh so it is no wonder @Trixiefirecracker struggled.

Yes it's not been made very accessible! But it is there. I'd seen a few academics reference it on twitter so had to go and find it for myself to verify.

@UsedUpUsername

What people don't seem to understand is that 3-4 months' data is long term data when it comes to vaccines. All these fuckwits wanting data for 5/10 years don't actually understand what they want. Hence why we should listen to the experts, not meatheads

We would have known about the sudden drop in effectiveness if they had studied these vaccines over a longer period. Pretty fucking huge oversight, don’t you think?

What do you mean @UsedUpUsername?

Waning immunity after vaccination is known to occur, this isn't a shock.

This isn't a reason to not vaccinate people, nor is it justification for delaying offering the vaccines to the general population during a pandemic.

Allowing people to be exposed or infected with COVID for the first time after vaccination will have saved many many lives and prevented long term disability, hospitlisation etc etc.

I found the Doshi video interesting, he sounds quite plausible but I happen to know he is wrong on one specific point. The reason the definition of vaccines has changed to include mRNA vaccines is because this is the first one made available to the public so previously the definition didn't need to account for them – there's nothing dodgy going on here, it's that the science has changed.

DD2 is currently doing original research with mRNA vaccines – nothing to do with Covid – and I can assure you they most definitely ARE considered vaccines by epidemiologists and virologists, which Dr Doshi is not.