What I don't understand about anti-vaxxers is...

[CanadianJohn]

What I don't understand about anti-vaxxers is how malevolent some of them are. If I decided I didn't want a covid jab, I certainly wouldn't picket hospitals and health centres. Recently an elected legislator in Manitoba faced a demonstration of about 30 people at her home, and someone left a noose on her lawn. www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/life/health/alberta-politician-angry-after-covid-19-protesters-leave-gallows-noose-at-her-house-575661242.html

A recent news story on booster jabs provoked dozens of responses poking fun at "sheeple" and referencing Big Phama and similar themes.

Why are so many people so vitriolic about the vaccine?

Because anti-vaxxers are nuts?

It is strange isn't it. It's all about "freedom" and "personal choice" but they don't tend to respect the choices of those who do want the vaccine.

I find people on the “other side” of the argument are just as horrible. I’ve seen more than a few threads here and elsewhere where people feel it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest that if someone who refused the vaxx gets COVID they should be refused medical treatment and death being wished upon them. Interesting that the same is not wished upon smokers, drinkers, the obese, drug addicts, people who participate in extreme sports, etc.

Interesting that the same is not wished upon smokers, drinkers, the obese, drug addicts, people who participate in extreme sports, de etc.

It is though, people say this all the time, lots of arseholes about sadly.

I know two people who aren't keen and I've struggled to find any counter arguments. They aren't extremists who think it's a counter conspiracy. They just aren't keen.

What about people who think it hasn't been investigated /trialled enough? The fact is, it has! Yes they have worked on vaccines for years, but this wax new, quickly put out, and we don't know about side effects, for ages. Because it's new, we don't have the evidence to say it's safe, because 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, hasn't passed,

I tried to look up an article. To convince someone. I couldn't find one. Please link if you do!

mayo

Even this Mayo clinic article isn't convincing! If I was a person who had concerns that we don't have enough evidence of it's long term effects, that article wouldn't convince me!

@FakingMemories

I find people on the “other side” of the argument are just as horrible. I’ve seen more than a few threads here and elsewhere where people feel it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest that if someone who refused the vaxx gets COVID they should be refused medical treatment and death being wished upon them. Interesting that the same is not wished upon smokers, drinkers, the obese, drug addicts, people who participate in extreme sports, etc.

death being wished upon them

You need to report those posts because they'd break the MN talk guidelines.

TBh it sounds more like the sort of nonsense you see on facebook and Reddit. And Twitter, of course.

MN relies on reporting, so do report anything you feel crosses the line.

I find is the other way. Never met an anti vaxxer like the ones you describe in real life. The people I know who have not got the vaccine for any reason have to keep it quiet so the pro vaxxers do not pick and judge them.

A few posts on MN us very different to picket hospitals or turning up at people's homes.

I, personally, know one of these conspiracy theorists. Due to who they are I can't cut contact yet. But I have heard alot. From my experience they hard core anti vaxers really believe they are right and they are just more clever than those who do have the jab. They see it as their calling to 'educate' others. Then they start getting angry people won't bow down and admit how stupid they are and how enlightened the anti vaxer is. Then they start acting out of that anger.

@CanadianJohn, my ds is severely allergic to all anti inflammatories (Steven Johnson syndrome) he also has an autoimmune condition AND had pericarditis as a child.
He’s in AB, he’s scared shitless of getting the vaccine. He makes out like a red neck anti vax but as a mom I hear fear.
Some people have valid reasons to want exemptions. Not loosing their jobs (oil field).

They aren't all like that though. Dh's friend is one and is disgusted at the picketing abuse etc. On the other hand I'm shocked by an acquaintance of mine who has turned into a different person over this, making jokes about people with covid, making openly angry statements about human rights and politicians. She was the loveliest person. We're trying to be there for her, her and her husband's separate businesses both went down because of covid, and her mum is very depressed over not seeing friends, but it's hard

I find people on the “other side” of the argument are just as horrible.

There are not two sides to this argument, in the same way as there is only one side to: 'what shape is the earth?', 'is global warming real?' and 'does Sweden exist?'.

Interesting that the same is not wished upon smokers, drinkers, the obese, drug addicts, people who participate in extreme sports, de etc.

Lots of people make the same argument about those topics too. It's a stupid argument but it's hardly the moral equivalent of a mob at someone's door threatening to hang them.

Indeed, it's not as wrong as discouraging people from vaccinating because it doesn't directly cost lives.

@FakingMemories

I find people on the “other side” of the argument are just as horrible. I’ve seen more than a few threads here and elsewhere where people feel it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest that if someone who refused the vaxx gets COVID they should be refused medical treatment and death being wished upon them. Interesting that the same is not wished upon smokers, drinkers, the obese, drug addicts, people who participate in extreme sports, etc.

Did you report the person wishing death on someone else to HQ? Was the post deleted?

I think Covid 19 vaccination is a personal choice.

Like vegans and environmentalists.
Not all anti-vaxxers are crazed demonstrators so we shouldn’t make sweeping generalisations.

It’s personal choice and most do it quietly

Protesters put a homemade guillotine outside Jeff Bezos’ mansion to protest worker abuses by Amazon sometime last year.

Does the good cause of worker rights become undermined by a few crazies? Are they representative of the entire movement? Should we throw our lot in with the oligarchs so as not to be tainted by association?

I think you know the answer here

What pisses me off about the anti vaxxer's is they're fine until they get covid and end up in hospital in ITU - all of a sudden they want the vaccine! If they die their families then harp on about getting the vaccine...

Some of them are just very passionate about it Not all are like that tho
There are people who just don’t believe the government- about anything. And they believe the scientists are paid to trot out whatever the government wants them to.
They feel that the vaccine is being pushed without the general public being given informed consent and that it’s poison/ gene therapy/ etc
This a wider community that just the anti vaxxers tho. They believe we are in a war where it is them against the establishment and that there will be court cases and hangings

I personally don’t get why there’s such hate and coercion against people who choose not to have the vaccine -surely that’s on them If an individual is willing to take that chance that’s their choice

This is absolutely tragic. Seriously everyone, get the vaccine.

news.sky.com/story/i-beg-all-people-to-get-jabbed-says-father-of-five-whose-wife-died-before-meeting-newborn-12462874

I think it’s a few things (and I’ll add that I volunteered for the vaccine trails, volunteered at vaccine centres and had mine as soon as offered so I don’t agree with any anti-vaccine arguments).

Firstly I guess if you did truly genuinely think it was dangerous, I mean really dangerous, you might feel like you had to protest, especially against children having it. If you really believed you were right and that it was going to kill people, I can see how some people with that view would consider it a moral obligation to speak out against it.

The sheeple comments and mocking people who’ve had the vaccine I think is more a need to reinforce their own views. And also demonstrate how clever they are that they’ve not being sucked in and haha all you idiots have.

And then when it comes to discussions around conditions being placed on society based on vaccine status, again I can see why people would be furious if they really thought it was dangerous and felt they were being forced into it. I’d be furious if I felt the government was forcing me to take medication I honestly believed was dangerous.

And then some people are just arseholes.

And you have to remember that plenty of people who don’t want the vaccine aren’t like this. There’ll be people just quietly not having it, but you’ll get very vocal people in any group.

[quote lllllllllll]This is absolutely tragic. Seriously everyone, get the vaccine.

news.sky.com/story/i-beg-all-people-to-get-jabbed-says-father-of-five-whose-wife-died-before-meeting-newborn-12462874[/quote]
There are equally tragic stories about those who had the vaccine

There are equally tragic stories about those who had the vaccine

Yes, and they are very sad indeed.

But if your aim is to prevent human misery, then which do you go for - the one vaccine-related death or 142k from the disease?

Similar gulf in complications.

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

There are equally tragic stories about those who had the vaccine

Yes, and they are very sad indeed.

But if your aim is to prevent human misery, then which do you go for - the one vaccine-related death or 142k from the disease?

Similar gulf in complications.

Should be based on individual risk perception. Healthy young man in his 20s? Don’t need it—problem is you have fat men in their 40s and 50s who kind of forget they aren’t so young anymore.

A targeted campaign for the middle-aged and elderly would be so much better.

@Oblomov21

I know two people who aren't keen and I've struggled to find any counter arguments. They aren't extremists who think it's a counter conspiracy. They just aren't keen.

What about people who think it hasn't been investigated /trialled enough? The fact is, it has! Yes they have worked on vaccines for years, but this wax new, quickly put out, and we don't know about side effects, for ages. Because it's new, we don't have the evidence to say it's safe, because 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, hasn't passed,

I tried to look up an article. To convince someone. I couldn't find one. Please link if you do!

mayo

Even this Mayo clinic article isn't convincing! If I was a person who had concerns that we don't have enough evidence of it's long term effects, that article wouldn't convince me!

What people don't seem to understand is that 3-4 months' data is long term data when it comes to vaccines. All these fuckwits wanting data for 5/10 years don't actually understand what they want. Hence why we should listen to the experts, not meatheads.

What people don't seem to understand is that 3-4 months' data is long term data when it comes to vaccines. All these fuckwits wanting data for 5/10 years don't actually understand what they want. Hence why we should listen to the experts, not meatheads

We would have known about the sudden drop in effectiveness if they had studied these vaccines over a longer period. Pretty fucking huge oversight, don’t you think?

There are not two sides to this argument, in the same way as there is only one side to: 'what shape is the earth?', 'is global warming real?' and 'does Sweden exist?'.

There very much are. Extreme antivaxxers screaming about microchips and other conspiracy theories etc and extreme pro-vaxxers who think everyone should be vaccinated and anyone who doesn’t is a murderer and deserves to lose their job, be denied medical treatment, die etc.

Most people tend to fall in the middle, make their own decision and don’t really care what other people have decided. I think part of the problem is that anyone who has decided not to have the vaccine or protests against vaccine passports is labelled ‘anti-vaxx’ and people try to lump them in with the conspiracy theorists.