More people in hospital now are vaccinated than unvaccinated?

[PeppaNeedsToBeWrappedInBacon]

Can someone give me some stats behind this?

Someone has just told me that more vaccinated people are being hospitalised with covid than unvaccinated at the moment.

I’m only after facts, no opinions. Keep it unbiased. I’ve just tried to google this myself but between finding a reliable article, my screaming 2 year old and my pregnancy brain fog(it just plain exhaustion) - I can’t find much about this?

Is it true, if it’s true does this mean the vaccine isn’t working? I’m fully vaccinated.. just curious as it’s being debated on a local article at the moment.

@FixTheBone

The seat belt analogy is a really good one.

The other thing is see what the end result of the seat belt wearers vs the non seat belt wearers is.

God Mumsnet can be such a stupid place sometimes

How can you possibly compare seatbelts to vaccines? One comes with health risk and the other doesn’t. Car crashes don’t happen to the vast majority of the population. Seatbelt efficiency doesn’t wane after a couple of months. Wearing seatbelts is purely for your own safety. Vaccines (esp covid) were marketed to protect “others”.
It’s a very poor analogy.

@PAFMO sorry I don’t understand what you mean. Surely it’s widely acknowledged that people have died of primarily other causes while also testing positive for Covid?

@OrganicMooMoo

How can you possibly compare seatbelts to vaccines? One comes with health risk and the other doesn’t. Car crashes don’t happen to the vast majority of the population. Seatbelt efficiency doesn’t wane after a couple of months. Wearing seatbelts is purely for your own safety. Vaccines (esp covid) were marketed to protect “others”. It’s a very poor analogy.

No it isn't. Look up Base Rate Fallacy as referenced by PurpleDaisies.

[quote TinaYouFatLard]@PAFMO sorry I don’t understand what you mean. Surely it’s widely acknowledged that people have died of primarily other causes while also testing positive for Covid?[/quote]
No.

Excess deaths data has debunked it.
Check the UK gov/ONS spreadsheets for excess deaths in 2020 cf the previous 5 years.

Many more deaths overall in England and Wales than in any of the previous years.

The Excel the gov links to is very comprehensive and this is a c&p of a relevant paragraph.

"There were almost 76,000 more deaths from all causes and in all locations (hospitals, care homes, private homes and elsewhere) in England and Wales in 2020 than the five-year average. COVID-19 was responsible for 97% of the excess, having not previously existed."

The excels also break down home/hospital deaths- deaths in hospital last year actually decreased (a fact used by the conspiracy theorists to help their Covid denying agenda) but the ONS report points out that that's because in many hospitals ONLY Covid patients were admitted, while the home deaths include Covid and other deaths. (terminally ill cancer patients for example who in other years would have died in hospital)

@DramaLlllama

Not in the hospital I work in. Of the covid inpatients, 80-90% unvaccinated

how is this information available to you?

@Sean2001

I get all the reasoning here for why most of the people in hospital are now vaccinated.

But I thought the vaccinations were supposed to prevent serious illness and hospitalization. So how come nearly 10,000 people (mostly vaccinated) are now in hospital with Covid?

The vaccinations were at first meant to prevent spread - clearly that didn't work. Now they're not preventing hospitalization either.

Vaccinations mean that a much smaller percentage of those who contract covid will end up in hospital BUT a small percentage of a large number is still a large number. If you are going to let cases run wild as we have then you are going to end up with higher rates of hospitalisation.

Without the vaccinations hospitalisations and deaths would be much much higher.

*Not in the hospital I work in. Of the covid inpatients, 80-90% unvaccinated

how is this information available to you?*
Lot's of information held in the NHS is embargoed from public view.
I know my hospitals case mix every day but it's not published.
I think this is a mistake and not great for transparency.

Surely it’s widely acknowledged that people have died of primarily other causes while also testing positive for Covid?

Widely acknowledged by twats not so such much by scientists.

Sadly many of the 'excess deaths' aren't just COVID. Suicide, cancer deaths...due to lockdowns. Even the stillbirth rate rose during 2020.

Apparently, Addenbrrokes' in Cambridge is overwhelmed now.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/addenbrooke-s-ceasing-to-function-as-a-hospital-and-may-se-9224152/

and the HSJ is sounding the alarm.

www.hsj.co.uk/comment/this-is-far-worse-than-january-the-vaccine-hasnt-saved-us-this-time/7031273.article

The jist is we are no longer on a war-footing, staff sickness, staff shortages and self-isolating. This and a lack of care home capacity to discharge patients combined with the logistical nightmare of double running covid and non-covid wards and areas.

@CornishGem1975

Sadly many of the 'excess deaths' aren't just COVID. Suicide, cancer deaths...due to lockdowns. Even the stillbirth rate rose during 2020.

The ONS data published by the govt shows 97% of excess deaths were from Covid.

@vera99

Apparently, Addenbrrokes' in Cambridge is overwhelmed now.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/addenbrooke-s-ceasing-to-function-as-a-hospital-and-may-se-9224152/

and the HSJ is sounding the alarm.

www.hsj.co.uk/comment/this-is-far-worse-than-january-the-vaccine-hasnt-saved-us-this-time/7031273.article

The jist is we are no longer on a war-footing, staff sickness, staff shortages and self-isolating. This and a lack of care home capacity to discharge patients combined with the logistical nightmare of double running covid and non-covid wards and areas.

This might well be the case.

However it doesn't mean we should have to restrict our lives to stop any infectious disease spreading.

If we want a health service that's able to cope with ill people, something about that health service and how it's funded needs to change.

That the health service needs better funding is a given. But masks mandates could have been continued in the run-up to Christmas as a minimum extra measure to try and help reduce the number of respiratory infections. But no freedom ...

@CornishGem1975

Sadly many of the 'excess deaths' aren't just COVID. Suicide, cancer deaths...due to lockdowns. Even the stillbirth rate rose during 2020.

www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/rcog-responds-to-latest-ons-stillbirth-data/

Stillbirths in England and Wales fell.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2020registrations

Suicides in England and Wales fell during 2020. Especially in the young male demographic.

PAFMO thank you for your excellent work debunking the myths.

And guess what?

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/totalcancerdeathsintheukin2019and2020

Cancer deaths in England and Wales fell slightly too.

Ironically it's those who most opposed the lockdowns that most oppose any other mitigations.
No one wants lockdowns but if you do not keep cases down then that inevitably is where we'll end up.

If you are serious about not wanting lockdowns then you need to follow a vaccine plus policy.
i.e. vaccinate as much as the population as possible (including children!)
-ventilation standards for indoor settings i.e. minimum C02 levels required and funding for extra ventilation measures if needed
-regular testing with financial support for isolation and including isolation of household contacts of those who test positive as an absolute minimum (yes even those under 18 or double jabbed!)
-masks in enclosed areas such as shops, public transport etc

• Vaccine passports or negative tests required for any areas where masks impractical like restaurants or bar

All of these measures combined keep the economy moving, allow normal life to take place and keep cases and hospitalisations down so we're not so over whelmed with covid that we're having to cancel electives.

Will these happen? No fucking chance so Christmas lockdown it is.

@PAFMO

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2020registrations

Suicides in England and Wales fell during 2020. Especially in the young male demographic.

Somewhat misleading post - If you read the article you will see that the suicide rate in the UK during 2020 was lower than 2017 to 2019 due to two factors;

1. a significant reduction in male suicides in the 10 to 24 age range specifically in April and June 2020.
2. late registration of cause of death verdicts due to delays in the process caused by Covid.

I am curious why the male suicide rates in that age group and in those months dropped by three quarters compared to the previous year's rates.

@1dayatatime show us your counter evidence then ...

Again anecdotally..

I was talking to a doctor last week who said the numbers of early vaccinated now ending up on covid wards is rising.

@1dayatatime.

It's a C&p from the ONS report. Maybe take it up with them.

@Starlightstarbright1

Again anecdotally..

I was talking to a doctor last week who said the numbers of early vaccinated now ending up on covid wards is rising.

Based on the data from Israel that seems extremely likely to be true. I've been advising all my over-60 friends and family not to hang about before their boosters.

I will not be complying with any more lockdowns if they happen.

The vaccine mandate for care home workers will contribute to the problem

I was told i cant have the second vaccine because i had Moderna as my first and they wont mix them. I tried TWICE on the 26th September and the 6th November.

They can shove their gaslighting up their arse.