More people in hospital now are vaccinated than unvaccinated?

[PeppaNeedsToBeWrappedInBacon]

Can someone give me some stats behind this?

Someone has just told me that more vaccinated people are being hospitalised with covid than unvaccinated at the moment.

I’m only after facts, no opinions. Keep it unbiased. I’ve just tried to google this myself but between finding a reliable article, my screaming 2 year old and my pregnancy brain fog(it just plain exhaustion) - I can’t find much about this?

Is it true, if it’s true does this mean the vaccine isn’t working? I’m fully vaccinated.. just curious as it’s being debated on a local article at the moment.

@OrganicMooMoo

One dose is much lower efficacy than two.

I’m not arguing that. But it would be more helpful if they gave figures for truly unvaxxed vs partially vaxxed vs fully vaxxed so that we could see clearly the efficacy of one dose compared to none or one dose compared to two. Now even double vaxxed will be lumped in with “unvaxxed” and only triple vaxxed will be counted as vaccinated for the purpose of hospitalisation and death statistics. It’s bad science and meaningless statistics.

Among the ONS statistics pages you can download data sets for repaired statistics, included among these are numbers for unvaccinated, and one, two or three doses etc

It's not surprising though is it. Most people are vaccinated and more of the vaccinated population are older than younger.

twitter.com/LucyGoBag/status/1325808948860030978?s=20

@LucyGoBag
@ProfLAppleby
This is not a clear position yet. Suicide is a verdict given in the coronial court, some running almost a year behind on case load. I appreciate what you are trying to do here but we simply cannot evaluate this until we have a coronial picture for this whole period.

@hamstersarse

The stats on people in hospital who have been vaccinated does beg the question…..the unspeakable question…..whether these people are in hospital with COVID or because of COVID.

I realise it’s heresy to ask that question

Given the percentage of the population that are vaccinated, it makes sense that they would make up a good percentage of the people currently hospitalised with Covid. But you go ahead with silly, unspeakable questions.

@MercyBooth

I will not be complying with any more lockdowns if they happen.

The vaccine mandate for care home workers will contribute to the problem

I was told i cant have the second vaccine because i had Moderna as my first and they wont mix them. I tried TWICE on the 26th September and the 6th November.

They can shove their gaslighting up their arse.

I'm unsure how this is gaslighting? And how is is related to lockdowns?

You only need to compare case rates with hospitalisation rates to see how well the vaccine worked.

@Dishhh

I think the ‘with’ or ‘of’ question is more relevant than it has been ever before because of vaccinations.

We are told that vaccinations are highly effective at stopping hospitalisation and death, so the way in which we are reporting every death matters here a lot.

Real life scenario. Women in 70s has late stage dementia, she stops eating and drinking, is hospitalised. On arrival she tests positive for Covid. She’s fully vaccinated. Is in hospital for a week, still not eating and drinking. Tests negative for covid at day 6. Still not eating and drinking. Doctors give her a few days to live and discharge her to specialist care home for palliative. She lives another week.

She is within 28 days of a positive test.

Every doctor dealing with her stated “the covid is not the problem, it’s the dementia”

The vaccine prevented covid worsening her condition. Did it’s job. But she is a covid death, hospitalisation figure etc.

@Tealightsandd

That's good news *@WiseUpJanetWeiss*

I understand supply (worldwide) is limited, and assume therefore treatment has to be rationed?

Yes I believe so. There’s one combination in use at the moment with another in the pipeline for the next couple of months.

[quote hamstersarse]@Dishhh

I think the ‘with’ or ‘of’ question is more relevant than it has been ever before because of vaccinations.

We are told that vaccinations are highly effective at stopping hospitalisation and death, so the way in which we are reporting every death matters here a lot.

Real life scenario. Women in 70s has late stage dementia, she stops eating and drinking, is hospitalised. On arrival she tests positive for Covid. She’s fully vaccinated. Is in hospital for a week, still not eating and drinking. Tests negative for covid at day 6. Still not eating and drinking. Doctors give her a few days to live and discharge her to specialist care home for palliative. She lives another week.

She is within 28 days of a positive test.

Every doctor dealing with her stated “the covid is not the problem, it’s the dementia”

The vaccine prevented covid worsening her condition. Did it’s job. But she is a covid death, hospitalisation figure etc.[/quote]

Is this an actual case?

Yes @Dishhh

So she stops eating and drinking - and supposedly was already positive at this point, @hamstersarse? If you were positive, that could affect your appetite and thirst, could it not? The dementia would complicate that. So yes, that would be a Covid death (the cause of death), with the underlying condition of dementia.

Interestingly there was a huge spike in dementia deaths at the start of the pandemic when we weren't testing. It is believed many of these deaths were COVID.

[quote hamstersarse]@Dishhh

I think the ‘with’ or ‘of’ question is more relevant than it has been ever before because of vaccinations.

We are told that vaccinations are highly effective at stopping hospitalisation and death, so the way in which we are reporting every death matters here a lot.

Real life scenario. Women in 70s has late stage dementia, she stops eating and drinking, is hospitalised. On arrival she tests positive for Covid. She’s fully vaccinated. Is in hospital for a week, still not eating and drinking. Tests negative for covid at day 6. Still not eating and drinking. Doctors give her a few days to live and discharge her to specialist care home for palliative. She lives another week.

She is within 28 days of a positive test.

Every doctor dealing with her stated “the covid is not the problem, it’s the dementia”

The vaccine prevented covid worsening her condition. Did it’s job. But she is a covid death, hospitalisation figure etc.[/quote]
I didn't eat for a few days when I got covid and I wasn't terribly ill with it. I just completely lost my appetite. I think elderly people are more likely to stop eating and drinking when they are ill. My mum has dementia and she does that too. It's not the dementia making her not eat, it's the combination of things.

I also think it's a long leap from hamstersarse's scenario of the woman with dementia to extrapolating that therefore the vast majority of excess deaths were not due to COVID. That's a leap that would need some serious hard evidence before I'd be inclined to support it.

More generally, it isn't unreasonable to use 'with' COVID because whatever condition you have, COVID is likely to make you worse and more likely to die. This is particularly but not exclusively the case with respiratory illnesses. People seem to want COVID deaths to be 100% COVID and nothing else before they can be classified as such - why?

Make sure everyone you know that is eligible for a booster has one.

Gee thanks for that @pommedeterre

[quote hamstersarse]@Dishhh

I think the ‘with’ or ‘of’ question is more relevant than it has been ever before because of vaccinations.

We are told that vaccinations are highly effective at stopping hospitalisation and death, so the way in which we are reporting every death matters here a lot.

Real life scenario. Women in 70s has late stage dementia, she stops eating and drinking, is hospitalised. On arrival she tests positive for Covid. She’s fully vaccinated. Is in hospital for a week, still not eating and drinking. Tests negative for covid at day 6. Still not eating and drinking. Doctors give her a few days to live and discharge her to specialist care home for palliative. She lives another week.

She is within 28 days of a positive test.

Every doctor dealing with her stated “the covid is not the problem, it’s the dementia”

The vaccine prevented covid worsening her condition. Did it’s job. But she is a covid death, hospitalisation figure etc.[/quote]
She is not reported as a Covid death
She is included within “died within x days of a positive test”, and also can have a number of factors listed on her death certificate

What we should not do is claim that “within x days” means caused by

@pommedeterre

Make sure everyone you know that is eligible for a booster has one.

How do you propose we do that?

@TragicRabbit

I wonder if there’s a feeling amongst some of the double jabbed that they’re somehow immune. That and the lax attitude around mask wearing. I’m part of the ONS study for Covid and have had my antibodies checked since the beginning of the summer. Despite being double jabbed my last antibody test came back as negative. So I’m guessing I’m back to square one as far as protection goes. And I can’t be alone in that.

No, that's not how it works. Your body produces antibodies when you have the jab, and they will naturally wane. Your body will still remember how to make those antibodies if it gets infected (I think that's what T cell immunity is)

Yes not how immunity works. It is just not as simple as we would all like it to be I guess!

So I do the ONS tests too and my September antibodies was negative (after 3/4 months of positives). Then DD had covid - I didn't catch it from her (2 x pcrs and daily LFTs for 15 days says I didn't) but Oct and Nov ONS antibody tests are... positive.

September just a one off? Or did fighting off covid from dd put antibodies back in my blood? Fascinating really.