To think most people would prefer pubs and restaurants close in December than miss out on Christmas with their families again.

[katedan]

Plan C of the health secretaries plan if numbers continue to rise and masks and SD don't work is to ban people going around peoples homes again, surely it is better and safer as it will be less people together if they close bars and restaurants and let people have Christmas with family this year.

@AnkleDeep
"Family matters more than pubs. They aren't essential."

Some people rely on pubs to get social interaction. Many suicides last year was because of isolation. Not everyone has family. As said pubs are essential to the people who work in them.

But this doesn't have to be an either/or. The message needs to be clear that you are mixing with older relatives at your own risk. Me not going to the pub isn't going to keep people over 75 alive, only the families of those people can. Me walking to my local pub, as more people are because of a shortage of taxis, isn't going to stop the accidents you see over winter on motorways involving families visiting each other.
Limited numbers, extra bouncers to stop the binge drinking and fighting is the way to go.

For me I complied last year knowing that it could protect my elderly (87y o) grandad. The thing is avoiding him to stop him getting covid is ultimately going be fruitless- all its going to do is deprive my kids of a few years of memories, and deprive him of family and comfort during what could very well be his last few Christmases.

For a man who has always been a line toeing, rule follower, he himself has begun to have a much more fatalistic, "I'm going to die in a couple of years anyway so blow the rules I'm going to see my family" outlook. He doesn't want to waste those last few years sitting indoors staring at the walls closing in, and I think I can appreciate that.

Possibly controversial but I think people can go overboard on the whole family Christmas idea. Lots of people don’t have a nuclear family or don’t get on with them and there is huge pressure to act like an M and S ad for a day. Great if you have it but not everyone does. We need live music, entertainment etc or some of those businesses will never recover.

@WhiskyXray

I'm jabbed and so are all my family above 12. As if we'd comply with any further edicts not to see one another!

If they do go down the route of shutting down local hospitality again (just like last year, after the rich have had nice foreign summer holidays), then the UK will be irretrievably fucked economically and socially.

This. We get it down to low levels after months and months of lockdowns, then the government lets everyone and their dog fly in and out, bringing back new variants and we’re back to square one. There is no mandate to have a vaccine so it will keep spreading there. My London hospital has reducing numbers of inpatients and I can tell you almost all the ones who are very sick or dying are vaccine refusers.

If we pursue on-off lockdowns while letting in the world, no mandate for vaccine and the vaccines on their own don’t stop this, then what is the end goal?

@2typesofjungle

My family suck, I'd rather go to the pub.

😂 I completely relate to this!

extra bouncers to stop the binge drinking and fighting is the way to go.

I don't get the link with COVID @Ponoka7 ?

For a man who has always been a line toeing, rule follower, he himself has begun to have a much more fatalistic, "I'm going to die in a couple of years anyway so blow the rules I'm going to see my family" outlook. He doesn't want to waste those last few years sitting indoors staring at the walls closing in, and I think I can appreciate that.

My DGM took this attitude too. She was in her late 90s by the time covid hit, so we also agreed with a "quality over quantity" view of things.

She did die earlier this year, and not of covid - her death certificate simply listed old age as her cause of death. I'm really fucking glad I ignored da roolz last year and spent one last Christmas with my dear dear DGM.

It was a shame that - because I work in the events & hospitality sector - and have been financially screwed by lockdown that I couldn't actually afford to buy her a present. Good job she paid for the ingredients for Christmas dinner too, because I certainly couldn't afford to.

My main concern is whether they will close schools again. The harm that has been done to children, and is still being done, is really dreadful. I’d far rather see pubs closed and Christmas cancelled than have children miss any more school.

If they shut hospitality again then a big proportion will never open again, especially if they lose the December trade.

My mum died of covid last year, she caught it a month before the vaccine rollout. She wasn’t on the shielded list. As my family was very exposed we avoided seeing her indoors all that time, until we knew for sure (with blood antibody tests) that DH and I had had the virus. She had a very boring year where she was in quite a low mood. Then she spent Christmas and a miserable month in hospital and died anyway. I’d rather she’d caught it earlier and lived a normal life to that point if I’m honest.

About 4% of people spend Christmas Day alone.

09:58ClaudiaWankleman
"extra bouncers to stop the binge drinking and fighting is the way to go.
I don't get the link with COVID @Ponoka7 ?"

One of the reason why venues shut was that the trouble drinking brings was tipping the services, police, ambulance, hospitals into breaking point. Not because of transmission. The government knew very well that people would just gather in houses. So remove the social problems and the issues that will overstretch the services.
The idea of lockdown was to minimise traffic, so less accidents, family visiting isn't going to do that.
Let's look sensibly at the real issues and remove them. This will create jobs.

It won’t happen cos the government don’t care. They aren’t even trying to pretend anymore either. They were forced into the last lockdown Boris didn’t want any of it.
I’ve worked throughout and followed every rule including not mixing at Christmas.

I doubt many would follow it again and I won’t be doing that this year. My dad is unwell and I’m not prepared to not have a family Christmas with him we never know how long he will live.

All fully vaccinated, I’m boosted as healthcare worker. My dad will be too. We can do LFTs and keep windows open. Im aware how bad covid can be I’ve worked with it but Im careful I wear masks still and I still regularly LFT but the last lockdown affected my mental health. Effectively in the north we locked down in November and didn’t open until April. Bar the shops in December of course ( money!).

I’ve forced myself to get over my anxiety about returning to real life events, attending indoor venues with no mask wearing, travelling on the bus with people who refuse to mask wear, going into the office and sending my unvaccinated children to school (where about 1 in 30 have Covid). But it’s hard to then stop going to visit family, tell my kids they can’t go to birthday parties or sports clubs and keep 2 metres away from someone I’m talking to in the street. I could, but it feels mad!

They have lost public trust. We know even our Prime Minister did not stick to the Christmas rules. People will ignore the government and choose whether to see family or not this Christmas. If I can isolate beforehand I will see my parents, if not I won't. But it won't matter what the government says.

I won't comply with being banned from seeing my friends and family ever again. It's outrageous that they did that in the first place. It's not the unvaccinated fault either, fully vaccinated people can still catch and pass covid on and they are still dying and ill too. Its the years of underfunding in the NHS and that is now being passed to us as 'our fault', the NHS struggle every year at this time and nothing has been done - I'm completely done with all measures now, yes cases are rising but deaths are fortunately really low.

For me I complied last year knowing that it could protect my elderly (87y o) grandad. The thing is avoiding him to stop him getting covid is ultimately going be fruitless- all its going to do is deprive my kids of a few years of memories, and deprive him of family and comfort during what could very well be his last few Christmases.

This.

When we are allowed to go to school and work (including care homes/hospitals/dentist....) from homes we share with a verified covid positive person then we know the government are not that bothered about transmission. Isolating if someone in your household is positive is a way to get straight to the root of known transmission. Funds to support people to isolate would be helpful instead of money for more furlough.

Pubs and restaurants need to stay open.

I agree with others, people will ignore rules banning them from mixing with family and friends. Not helped by the staggering hypocrisy from the likes of our very own PM who has broken his own fucking rules. And Hancock. That lot then rally round each other saying it’s ok to break the rules. If our leaders won’t lead by example then what hope is there for anyone else?!

I hope that the hospitality industry doesn’t suffer anymore than it has already. Not to mention not everyone has family to visit at Christmas, some would prefer to be anywhere else but with blood relatives, including the pub.

@julieca
"About 4% of people spend Christmas Day alone."

The last survey was one in six. My sister does the Christmas dinner at her Church, it's always packed. Every street I've ever lived in has has a few people who've been alone, except for the pub. It isn't 4%.

@2typesofjungle

My family suck, I'd rather go to the pub.

This, unfortunately!

@Winter2020

When we are allowed to go to school and work (including care homes/hospitals/dentist....) from homes we share with a verified covid positive person then we know the government are not that bothered about transmission. Isolating if someone in your household is positive is a way to get straight to the root of known transmission. Funds to support people to isolate would be helpful instead of money for more furlough.

Totally agree. The government have done nothing to stop transmission. Zero.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

I won't comply with being banned from seeing my friends and family ever again. It's outrageous that they did that in the first place. It's not the unvaccinated fault either, fully vaccinated people can still catch and pass covid on and they are still dying and ill too. Its the years of underfunding in the NHS and that is now being passed to us as 'our fault', the NHS struggle every year at this time and nothing has been done - I'm completely done with all measures now, yes cases are rising but deaths are fortunately really low.

It’s the unvaccinated that are filling ITUs.

I'd rather pubs etc stay open than close the whole of December to suit one day 🤷‍♀️