To think most people would prefer pubs and restaurants close in December than miss out on Christmas with their families again.

[katedan]

Plan C of the health secretaries plan if numbers continue to rise and masks and SD don't work is to ban people going around peoples homes again, surely it is better and safer as it will be less people together if they close bars and restaurants and let people have Christmas with family this year.

@FreedomFaith

Why not just start plan b now and make everyone wear masks again and social distance? Because barely anyone is now in england. Can probably slow the numbers down easily with just that, no need for other action.

I agree. WFH and masking in public would probably slow the numbers enough.

It's not just the pubs and restaurants who would be screwed by being forced to close.

It's the taxi drivers, who's work has never really recovered, it is the clothing shops who make a huge amount of money selling Christmas party outfits
It's the gift shops that sell Secret Santa stuff for office parties
and so on and so on

The knock on affect of 'just' shutting pubs will take a lot of people to their knees again, it just can't be a decision taken on a whim or lightly

It would help if the 1/5 of the population who haven't been vaccinated would get on with it.

@LittleMysSister they said on the press conference yesterday that you should now be able to book boosters on the national booking service.

If the events / hospitality sector is forced to close again, then sod Christmas, I won't be able to afford to pay my rent. Forget turkey, it'll be pasta and tomato sauce for Christmas dinner, and no presents either.

Previous lockdowns I haven't been eligible for SEISS, furlough, or UC. My ability to cope with further lockdowns has been stripped from me.

YABVVVVVU to support any further closures, unless you will PERSONALLY be paying my lost income into my bank account.

It doesn’t matter what people ‘prefer’. It’s about putting in simple measures to get case numbers down.

I’m amazed that masks are not being made mandatory as in other European countries. Such a simple measure and you can still go about your daily life.

@sashagabadon

We’re also being told 50% of cases are in the under 19’s. They don’t go to pubs and clubs so it would make little difference.

If thats true its a good thing because however many cases, very very few will be really ill.

Well yes @MrsKeats . I thought that vaccination meant that people were catching covid, but only the non vaccinated and those who needed a booster were getting seriously ill.
I mean obviously it would be better if nobody got ill or died, but if vaccinations don't work then why are they still being touted as the golden ticket ? Or is this just a ploy to encourage the not yet vaccinated to get done ?

No we should have invested in our health service, including training, accept death for the over 75s, because that's a natural age of death, shut done non essential flights and got on with it. I say that as someone who is ECV and can't shield.
I know people who went to their birth countries and mixed with around 500 people, while we were told not to see family over Christmas. They won't stop the football, which we've found transmission routes from, so nothing else should stop.
We need to start protesting about the lack of investment for that last 11 years in public services.
We've had harsh measures that do very little, but left other things to go on.
Parts of the North is on its knees. Pubs etc closing has a knock on effect on hairdressers, clothing retailers, taxi drivers etc. How do you propose people pay their bills?
Life doesn't stop in African countries who have similar death numbers from easily sorted out diseases. People need work, we need a bigger health/social service, let's match that up.

Oh and look at the Scottish figures - masks really don't make that much difference ( but they might if SG and BG insisted on proper medical grade masks being used).

@zafferana

I think most people would prefer that people get their bloody vaccines so we don't need to do either!

They might want to start with actually having everyone getting vaccinated, like teenagers and children who are the ones who bring the infection back to homes and spread the virus..... including amongst vaccinated people.

I'm jabbed and so are all my family above 12. As if we'd comply with any further edicts not to see one another!

If they do go down the route of shutting down local hospitality again (just like last year, after the rich have had nice foreign summer holidays), then the UK will be irretrievably fucked economically and socially.

@GastronomicDelights

If the events / hospitality sector is forced to close again, then sod Christmas, I won't be able to afford to pay my rent. Forget turkey, it'll be pasta and tomato sauce for Christmas dinner, and no presents either.

Previous lockdowns I haven't been eligible for SEISS, furlough, or UC. My ability to cope with further lockdowns has been stripped from me.

YABVVVVVU to support any further closures, unless you will PERSONALLY be paying my lost income into my bank account.

And I think this is the Gov thinking there is no talk of further furlough as it has cost so much but they need a way of getting people to agree to vaccines and masks which are both the easiest solution to avoiding further restrictions. It won't cost the economy as much if they make home get together illegal again where closing pubs and restaurants will cost people's jobs.

No one will stick to the plan of "Don't go to peoples houses" this year, especially given the lack of fine Boris and his wife got after just admitting they had guests.

Also, a lot of people have no family, are homeless etc and rely on restaurants offering Christmas dinner.

YABU

Keep the pubs and restaurants open... plus allow family mixing.

We'll never get to zero Covid and we can't go on like this forever. Even countries like NZ have admitted that zero Covid is unachieved with Delta.

I have no intention of isolating myself again. Especially with 2 under 2s who's already mixed out on getting to know their family. It destroyed me last time, and I'm honestly not sure I'd even survive it this time.

I'll follow guidance like wearing masks, and potentially something like rule 10, or max 3 households inside. And I'll continue with regular testing. But beyond that I'm done.

I agree about the lack of investment @Ponoka7.

But they are not going to do that.
They are clearly on the line of 'that's your responsibility as an individual' to protect yourself and not infect others.
The NHS will struggle this winter. It's already not coping (see the amount of patients waiting outside of A&E). Itwill be run don even more at which point the government will jump as a saviour to propose a brand new shiny option - of private healthcare.

This government has no intention at all to support the NHS. The whole of decisions during this crisis shows that.

In addition to my reply above, we were all also told "get vaccinated if you want to see family and go on holiday again" and the large majority of us did. Not going to miss out this year because Boris suddenly decides to punish us all again while he swans about doing whatever the fuck he likes.

Don't go to pubs etc and I don't care what anyone says I am seeing my family this Xmas..my dad has cancer..this could be the last one and I didn't see them last year due to restrictions..we going to my family this year matter what. We all double vaccinated.

How many thousands of businesses will fold and individuals lose their jobs if the hospitality sector is forced to shut again?

Individuals have a choice. If you don't want to use the hospitality sector then that's your choice but no reason why the sector should be shut.

This is a meaningless binary choice which doesn't apply.

@TravelLost

I agree about the lack of investment *@Ponoka7*.

But they are not going to do that.
They are clearly on the line of 'that's your responsibility as an individual' to protect yourself and not infect others.
The NHS will struggle this winter. It's already not coping (see the amount of patients waiting outside of A&E). Itwill be run don even more at which point the government will jump as a saviour to propose a brand new shiny option - of private healthcare.

This government has no intention at all to support the NHS. The whole of decisions during this crisis shows that.

I've ranted extensively about this on other threads too. This is the perfect storm for them. We will all go about our business and cases will rise, then it will be the NATIONS fault the NHS collapsed and nothing to do with the Tories desperately wanting privatisation.

They don’t care about people’s welfare or mental health. They don’t even care about people getting sick hntil it’s inconvenient.

They care about tax revenue.

And they are STUPID.

@thisplaceisweird

It's clear that the British people can't follow rules or be sensible either way, nor can the British Government organise themselves enough to provide and maintain clear enough guidelines. So really, what's the point in closing things, just let you at it. At least you've stopped travelling to my lovely part of Europe now it's cooler.

In this case it's English - in Scotland and Wales you do still have to wear masks.

Smug expats coming on here to say how wonderful everything is where they are isn't' helpful though. Go and find your country of residence's version of Mumsnet instead.

And even if they do try and ban Christmas mixing...

Knowing that Boris and Carrie abused the childcare bubble exemption to have their mate over for a Christmas Day piss up - is ANYONE actually going to follow the instruction anyway?

The disgusting hypocrisy yet again means that no one is going to be inclined to follow the rules knowing full well the actual people who made them will be carrying on as they wish

Having a friend in the hospitality sector I can assure you that the sector is at its knees and lots will not survive another round of closures.

Also, I don't have family in this country, it's my birthday in December and while I could have friends over at home I prefer to be able to go out once in a while. Last year we sat outside in the cold to eat a curry, in a way it was fun but once is enough, thank you. Not everyone has the picture book perfect family of 3-4 generations and a house to hold them all.

Ensure that people are vaccinated incl. secondary school children getting their second jab. Bring back masks, they help a lot. Maybe ensure venues are only booked to 75%.

After its become clear Boris didn't bother following the rules last Christmas he's hardly in a position to try and stop people seeing each other this Christmas... No one's going to listen to him.