How many covid deaths per month is too many?

[PrincessNutNuts]

3000? 4000? 5000? 6000?

At what point would you begin to be uncomfortable with the body count caused by the government policy colloquially known as "living" with covid?

Boris Johnson has been reported as saying that unless 50,000 are going to die he's not changing course.

This number can be expressed as about 238 dead British people every day from September - March inclusive, or 137 deaths per day over a year. Or 416 per day from November - February inclusive.

Is another 50,000 on the covid death toll ok with you?

Or not?

I forgot to say.

Do put your alternative expectations for the next four months here if you like.

What's the point? Are we doing future bingo?

@PrincessNutNuts

I don't think like our current government.

The idea of our Prime Minister saying that 50,000 people could be set to die as a result of his covid policies before he would change course boggles my mind.

But I have a life.

And I try and make plans.

So I try to understand how our government thinks.

I can't ask them questions.

But I can ask people with similar viewpoints on the internet.

The Mumsnet covid board has the highest concentration of that "living with covid" viewpoint anywhere I go on the internet

So I asked.

In the hope that some of you would have a line beyond which you'd be uncomfortable with the avoidable deaths of British people from a preventable disease.

Because from that I would try to work out when the Tory faithful would get restless, when our populist PM would implement Plan B, and when that fails because it will be too little too late as always, I would expect the next lockdown to be called.

So thank you if you gave a number, I'm not making Christmas plans.

Or New Year plans

Or Valentines Day plans.

So you have taken what you need from this thread. Now you give back. What is your “acceptable” number of covid deaths?

It's no more 'preventable' than any other disease though. Global zero covid is a fool's vision.

The fact that it didn't exist three years ago doesn't make any difference to that.

@RichTeaRichTea I would like to know this aswell.

I also want to know her acceptable cancer deaths, malnutrition deaths and malaria deaths.

Shit, all of us who won't/can't/aren't interested in numbers are "Tory faithful" - I didn't get that memo!

I think what you can "take from the thread" OP, is that your obsession with doom, gloom, counting deaths/cases, lockdown, focusing solely on Covid pretty much puts you in a very select group of less than half a dozen on MN.

That doesn't mean that the rest of us who are going about our daily lives as normally as we possible can are psycopaths, or sociopaths either. We know you have a fondness for hyperbole with your ripping, sacrificing, carnage.

Maybe there's a forum out there where you would find more like-minded terrified people?

The idea of our Prime Minister saying that 50,000 people could be set to die as a result of his covid policies before he would change course boggles my mind.

That's beacuse, like many others, you don't understand, or wabnt to understand, the logic behind the statement. I know you've been here a while so have seen the many, many studies, statistics etc on it, so I know, with that one statement, that you are choosing to ignore it all!

But I have a life... And I try and make plans.... So I try to understand how our government thinks... I can't ask them questions. To be fair many ordinary peole did just that n=on many podium taks. And agai, the many , many data streams are there for the viewing.

But I can ask people with similar viewpoints on the internet. Beware the echo chamber

The Mumsnet covid board has the highest concentration of that "living with covid" viewpoint anywhere I go on the internet... So I asked.

And are now prevaricating because, having asked people who probably disgaree with you you are seeing them, erm, disagree with you!

In the hope that some of you would have a line beyond which you'd be uncomfortable with the avoidable deaths of British people from a preventable disease.

Well, you handed us a loaded gun with Is another 50,000 on the covid death toll ok with you?

Because from that I would try to work out when the Tory faithful would get restless, when our populist PM would implement Plan B, and when that fails because it will be too little too late as always, I would expect the next lockdown to be called.

And you make daft assumptions again - Tory faithfull my arse!

So thank you if you gave a number, I'm not making Christmas plans... Or New Year plans... Or Valentines Day plans.

Poor little martyr!

What i take from this thread is that the OP and their student politics (calling people tories like its some mortal insult, ffs ) still doesn't realise Scotland, Wales and NI set their own rules and still had just a shit time of it that England did.

[quote Nidan2Sandan]@RichTeaRichTea I would like to know this aswell.

I also want to know her acceptable cancer deaths, malnutrition deaths and malaria deaths.[/quote]
What about TB deaths and measles deaths? Due to the pandemic and the response to the pandemic, global TB deaths have gone up for the first time in many years, and childhood vaccination programmes are falling behind. How many of those deaths are you ‘comfortable’ with having so we can say we are Taking Covid Seriously, Princess?

@Bordois

What i take from this thread is that the OP and their student politics (calling people tories like its some mortal insult, ffs ) still doesn't realise Scotland, Wales and NI set their own rules and still had just a shit time of it that England did.

nah, devolved countries don’t exist in this sort of conversation There is only Boris the Butcher’s Plague Island, vs ‘Europe’ where everyone has strict measures and low cases, vs ‘Asia’ where everyone wears masks all the time everywhere and is not selfish. Oh and New Zealand where they’re all out at concerts this very minute.

Boris the Butcher’s Plague Island

😂

I see "the next lockdown" is still being predicted, as it is every few weeks now. Say it enough times and you may get it right at some I suppose...

@PrincessNutNuts

I forgot to say.

Do put your alternative expectations for the next four months here if you like.

I would like to see the amount of deaths at or less than Europe. It’s not ‘acceptable’ in that I don’t think we stop trying to mitigate with the most effective strategies - and those strategies don’t impact on business/education or healthcare. Which include mask wearing - the idea that people would refuse to wear a mask to prevent deaths is abhorrent to me.

So at present we have over 800 deaths per week. That is too many. I would say 300 deaths or lower per week over the next four months is ‘acceptable’. But for me ‘acceptable’ means we do everything in our power to prevent every one of these deaths. However I don’t think we can sustain another lockdown for so many reasons, and there are real harms. I choose that number as many European countries are achieving that lower level of deaths. See data attached.

300 deaths per week or lower - that is the trade off between doing all mitigations, all contact tracing, but keeping schools and businesses open. What very much disturbs me is when deaths occur because we aren’t doing mitigations, wearing masks or contact tracing. That to me is completely unacceptable.

@AliceinBorderland Perhaps they forgot its more de rigeour on MN to be a pisshead!

@AliceinBorderland I put on weight in the lockdowns which im losing now. Funnily enough feeling like a scruffy tramp and unfeminine is not really conducive to weight loss Once i could go to the hairdressers and get my facial hair dealt with i felt human again. And guess what when women LOSE weight as well as gain what do you think the close contact service they need is. drum rollllllll.....................................

a BRA FITTING Of course these were open and available to all women during the months long lockdowns oh wait................REMEMBER this is a service that would be needed when you lose weight as well as gain. Not all of us can do it online. Which brings to my next point. It always seems to be those waxing lyrical about obesity who seem to advocate ppl sitting on their arse at home and doing everything online. Funny that. Its almost as if they just want an arse to kick.

I didnt even feel like a human let alone a woman Then came the masks which made me feel like a thing. a nuisance. a nothing.

Then you see celebs getting away with having all the things that were denied the rest of us because it counts as "work" Yeah you are damn right i got stuck into the crisps. But im losing weight now because there is some semblance of normality. But if you keep taking that away from people then you damn well reap what you sow.

@MercyBooth I totally get that, seeing celebs and politicians doing what they want whilst my hair looks like a haystack and I couldn’t see my mother in a year… really erodes that ‘togetherness’ and solidarity we had at the beginning.

Why? Because we stripped out the need for commuting and gave people back more time

Except for people who work in factories, on assembly lines, in supermarkets, in warehouses, for those who work for amazon, or pick your shopping in Tesco, or drive the buses, or the trains. Except for those people who work for the electricity companies, and the water companies, and those who empty the bins and those who grit the roads. Those people got to carry on going to work, as normal, so that the privileged could sit at home and have stuff brought to them whilst clapping on their doorsteps once a week like thoughtless twits. Those are the only people who were "given time". The above sentence sums up the absolute position of privilege that most lockdown lovers post from and it is beyond infuriating.

Enforced exercise and diets would save so many lives

And free sports bras as part of the initiative. Many women on my estate cant afford £34 to £40 for a good sports bra.

I lost ten stone in the mid 2000s Went from a 46G down to a 34F My boobs are big anyway. Inherited from my British grandmother.

Women need a proper sports bra. You cant start jumping up and down running etc without one.

@QueenofKattegat Hear hear

@FourTeaFallOut

I'm not sure if positive reinforcement would be as successful as the strategies used to keep people compliant with lockdown restrictions.

I mean, most people can't even be arsed to use their own gym memberships. You'd need something pretty spectacular.

You do realise there are studies that show sitting down all day and doing dya an hour in the gym doesn't make up for being sat down all day.

Wfh really doesn't help, less moving around. Going to my kitchen is alot shorter than the kitchen at work, not to mentioning moving every hr from meeting room to another meeting room.

Regular movement is required and I'm sorry but wfh just doesn't replicate that. You can try to at home but it really isn't the same.

There’s no way lockdowns make a population healthier

Stress, depression and anxiety rises and weight gain then increases

Which isn’t great as a risk factor for Covid

YY @CherryBlossomWinter Imagine if two and half years ago we got

Be a nation of scruffs
Protect the NHS.

oh we would have laughed and then said piss off
The country has been psychologically nudged into seeing this as normal.

And the resentment it is causing towards the NHS shouldnt be underestimated.

@CherryBlossomWinter our world is vastly over populated right now and on the increase. Do you know the disaster humanity would face if every possible death was prevented?

*You do realise there are studies that show sitting down all day and doing dya an hour in the gym doesn't make up for being sat down all day.

Wfh really doesn't help, less moving around. Going to my kitchen is alot shorter than the kitchen at work, not to mentioning moving every hr from meeting room to another meeting room.

Regular movement is required and I'm sorry but wfh just doesn't replicate that. You can try to at home but it really isn't the same*

I'm not sure you why you think this is a counter point to my post? I was just pointing out how hard it would be to use nudge tactics to motivate a population to take positive steps when lots of people with good intentions to go to the gym don't achieve much more than an additional direct debit.