Are people no longer bothered by Covid….?

[Iwannabelikeyouohh]

Is anyone actually bothered about Covid?
From places I’ve been recently, everyone is just “normal”

I took my son to a toddler class this morning.

I walked in wearing my mask. Room full of 19 other adults and their toddlers.

Not one single adult had a mask on (expect me)
There was no distancing in the class.
It was as normal as normal can be.

I joined a new slimming class tonight.

Again I walked in wearing a mask. No one else had one on.
All chairs pushed up together, people sat close.

I don’t get it.

How can we go from distancing, mask wearing, avoiding people on walks (which is exactly what it was like) to nothing….

Its a case of using the existing stereotypes to fit a political argument, rather than actually any interest in the reality.

Surely this has been more prevalent in the group that would like masks to stay. Why can’t we be more like - Asian approach (for example not what I think)

I don’t think saying there are different norms is problematic though.

Interesting re below

Yes, JVT has said in a press conference that he admires aspects of the Asian approach, such as the "3 Cs".

Keating The dominant factor in the public health response to Covid and uptake to public health advice and measures in “Asia*, a geographic area you chose to use as an homogenous cultural entity, was the individual previous experience of the SARS pandemic in 2003. The response to that pandemic was initially as chaotic as the western one to Covid. However lessons were learned quickly, and those lessons communicated to the public along with introducing measures that controlled infection. Nobody who was in an affected Asian country at the time was left in any doubt that SARS had not been the big one that Science anticipated and that the big one would come in the future. Hence countries like Hong Kong , South Korea, Taiwan had developed public health plans for a future possibly more infectious pandemic and swung them into action with the full understanding of the public who shared that previous experience. It was an exercise in effective public health policy not some manifestation of a centuries old pan Asian culture. In Japan they actually relied on that public shared experience of infection control and norms on wearing masks that go back further than 2003 rather than formal measures.

It wasn’t just the Hong Kong Chinese, with their recent history of protest and non compliance who took to wearing masks and submitting to quarantine measure etc. The expats /immigrants did too, even when an outbreak via gyms focused on their community, because it was blatantly working. Western countries like New Zealand and Australia who decided to learn from the experience of countries affected by SARS have also seen people manage to overcome their apparent idiosyncratic individualism to abide by public health policies, as indeed we did here to a surprising extent during the first lockdown until Cummings et al mismanaged that public engagement and trust.

Why can’t we be more like - Asian approach (for example not what I think) So there is an issue with learning from countries, not necessarily Asian, MERS for instance was in the Middle East, who had previous experience of pandemics and were implementing effective public health measures?

@Emilyontmoor

Why can’t we be more like - Asian approach (for example not what I think) So there is an issue with learning from countries, not necessarily Asian, MERS for instance was in the Middle East, who had previous experience of pandemics and were implementing effective public health measures?

I’m not sure what you mean by the MERS question, do I have an issue or countries? But also direct experience is powerful if you look at SARS and Taiwan investing pre Covid.

Western countries like New Zealand and Australia who decided to learn from the experience of countries affected by SARS have also seen people manage to overcome their apparent idiosyncratic individualism to abide by public health policies, as indeed we did here to a surprising extent during the first lockdown until Cummings et al mismanaged that public engagement and trust.

This is no more true there than here. Lockdown fatigue is just as evident in Melbourne and individualism is just as hard to suppress.

MarshaBradyo I have friends and family in Melbourne, Sydney and Auckland and I am not at all getting the impression that there is any dilution in the commitment to following the public health measures and strategy apart from the same noisy minority we have marching the streets here in the grip of conspiracy theories. Fatigue with the speed of vaccine roll out and vaccine hesitancy, yes, we all want to see each other, but they certainly appreciate that they have been kept safer than we have. The idea that there are 30 cases a week in a ward if 11000 people and a 100 a day in my borough horrifies them.

Yes I do too and am Aus / UK I know the way we are behaving to long lockdowns is similar. There is no great difference wrt individualism.

Outcomes yes, but not above.

U.K. had high compliance and got numbers down hugely. It’s part of the anti U.K. stuff imo

It’s part of the anti U.K. stuff imo

There has been a lot of that on this site right from the beginning. Lots of talk about how everyone else was complying better than us, moaning less than us etc etc. In reality, compliance was exceptionally high, better than the government ever hoped for.
My family are all in Spain. There was just as much moaning, just as many rule breakers, just as many anti lockdown protests there as here.

It’s like a reverse exceptionalism… for some reason a lot of people like to think we’re the worst at everything. The most selfish, the least compliant etc.

Yep. And we get a lot from o/s but also from here.

@TheGrumpyGoat

It’s like a reverse exceptionalism… for some reason a lot of people like to think we’re the worst at everything. The most selfish, the least compliant etc.

It's my belief that we are.

It's my belief that we are

What is your belief based on? I grew up in another country. Have lived in 4 different countries as an adult. The U.K. is no worse (or better) than anywhere else.

It takes away from the sacrifices people have made over a long period.

And is very blinkered.

@TheGrumpyGoat

It's my belief that we are

What is your belief based on? I grew up in another country. Have lived in 4 different countries as an adult. The U.K. is no worse (or better) than anywhere else.

I have a different belief to you. Both are valid.

I think a lot of people like to think the UK is bad at complying etc so they can project moral judgment on people who catch covid as they didn't follow the rules rather than accept that a virus will spread unless you literally stop all human contact.

I have a different belief to you. Both are valid

I know, I just asked what your belief was based on to try and understand it better . Sorry.

@TheGrumpyGoat

I have a different belief to you. Both are valid

I know, I just asked what your belief was based on to try and understand it better . Sorry.

No worries. I don't think we're going to change each other's minds though.

What’s the difference between making a sweeping negative statement about people in U.K. and other countries?

I’m not sure why it’s become so accepted on here.

I wasn’t asking so that you could change my mind, it’s just a mindset I would like to understand. I have years of experience living in other countries, both European and non European, and my lived experience is that people in the UK are no worse than the people in any of those countries. It would obviously take more than the opinion of someone on the internet to change my mind based on years of experience.
The main difference though is that people in the U.K. like to think they’re different, and that often manifests in this weird reverse exceptionalism. It’s interesting.

*TheGrumpyGoat

It’s like a reverse exceptionalism… for some reason a lot of people like to think we’re the worst at everything. The most selfish, the least compliant etc.*

Isn’t that hugely simplifying the issues? As a country we do have one of the worst records on the planets in terms of deaths and infections. Not because of individualism or compliance or individual exceptionalism, we could only respond to what was communicated to us. Mostly as a matter of record that was because of government actions, repeatedly too late locking down, bypassing existing public health and science lab resources to give test track and trace to the private sector who did not have the experience or expertise, a tendency to veer to a herd immunity strategy instead of keeping a hand on the infection control break etc. Some of that was ideological but some of it was exceptionalism, they really didn’t think it would happen here, or that they should be listening and learning the lessons from elsewhere.

Don’t fall for the idea this was the inevitable result of our western culture versus some othered. The difference between living through the SARS epidemic in Hong Kong and Covid here was that we were effectively communicated with, both when they didn’t know what they were up against, and when they did. You were given a reason and the evidence with, ironically full disclosure of their strategy, for everything that was asked of you, not patronising three word slogans.

I live in London, 1.5 million of us had had Covid by June 2020 mostly in March before lockdown. In the village where family live they now realise there were 20 cases in March 2020, a cluster that was spread by 2GPs skiiing in Italy. Yet there were supposed to be only a few cases, that was government gaslighting on a massive scale

@TheGrumpyGoat

It’s like a reverse exceptionalism… for some reason a lot of people like to think we’re the worst at everything. The most selfish, the least compliant etc.

This! I get so fed up with the media telling us we're the worst at everything. I have friends in Chicago and a brother in a southern state and one in Spain and my husband listens to Italian radio. It seems the same everywhere. My 'American' brother is scared because he has health issues and the other week all hospital beds were taken up with Covid patients.

@Emilyontmoor

*TheGrumpyGoat

It’s like a reverse exceptionalism… for some reason a lot of people like to think we’re the worst at everything. The most selfish, the least compliant etc.*

Isn’t that hugely simplifying the issues? As a country we do have one of the worst records on the planets in terms of deaths and infections. Not because of individualism or compliance or individual exceptionalism, we could only respond to what was communicated to us. Mostly as a matter of record that was because of government actions, repeatedly too late locking down, bypassing existing public health and science lab resources to give test track and trace to the private sector who did not have the experience or expertise, a tendency to veer to a herd immunity strategy instead of keeping a hand on the infection control break etc. Some of that was ideological but some of it was exceptionalism, they really didn’t think it would happen here, or that they should be listening and learning the lessons from elsewhere.

Don’t fall for the idea this was the inevitable result of our western culture versus some othered. The difference between living through the SARS epidemic in Hong Kong and Covid here was that we were effectively communicated with, both when they didn’t know what they were up against, and when they did. You were given a reason and the evidence with, ironically full disclosure of their strategy, for everything that was asked of you, not patronising three word slogans.

I live in London, 1.5 million of us had had Covid by June 2020 mostly in March before lockdown. In the village where family live they now realise there were 20 cases in March 2020, a cluster that was spread by 2GPs skiiing in Italy. Yet there were supposed to be only a few cases, that was government gaslighting on a massive scale

That wasn’t actually the issue I was discussing though, so no, I wasn’t simplifying anything. I was talking about the tendency on this forum for people to immediately jump to a negative opinion about the British population as a whole. Not just Covid related. I am technically British (Welsh) by birth but have spent far more years living in different countries than here (currently in England) and it’s something I have noticed a lot, on this forum in particular. I am not denying the British pandemic response was entirely inadequate. I am commenting on the fact that people are so keen to put the failures down to the apparent non compliance of the general public when it was in reality far more complex than that.

Grumpy yes it’s a strong theme on here and incorrect imo

Maybe it comes down to living elsewhere rather than just knowing people who do. That surface comparison seems to be offered up quite a lot (I have relatives there etc)

It’s almost kind of egotistical. We can’t just be average or bog standard, we have to be ‘the worst’. That’s how it appears as an observer anyway!

I think it’s from people who want others to do more for longer. More everyone else is rubbish.

Not true but maybe it helps with situation.