Are people no longer bothered by Covid….?

[Iwannabelikeyouohh]

Is anyone actually bothered about Covid?
From places I’ve been recently, everyone is just “normal”

I took my son to a toddler class this morning.

I walked in wearing my mask. Room full of 19 other adults and their toddlers.

Not one single adult had a mask on (expect me)
There was no distancing in the class.
It was as normal as normal can be.

I joined a new slimming class tonight.

Again I walked in wearing a mask. No one else had one on.
All chairs pushed up together, people sat close.

I don’t get it.

How can we go from distancing, mask wearing, avoiding people on walks (which is exactly what it was like) to nothing….

Keating

*There was a story very early on that came out of Wuhan about a disabled teenager who died because his parents/carers tested positive, were hauled off to quarantine, and he wasn't capable of fending for himself.

That the type of outcome that was chalked up as collateral damage for the greater good of the community. It's not something to aspire to in my eyes.*

Well this may have happened, overly zealous CCP officials are guilty of all sorts of human rights violations, in their eagerness to display their status and power, and that is certainly not confined to the Covid response. However it is also true that Chinese society operates to the greater good or bad more organically than western society. The western perception of a highly effective regime of central control isn’t how it works That is exactly why the Wuhan officials tried to hide the outbreak from Xi, who was in any case busy trade warring with Trump and nothing was done in the way of an orchestrated national public health response until the end of January. Democratic Taiwan began implementing its public health plans from mid December when they noticed a suspicious number of cases of a strange respiratory disease being bought in in Wuhan planes. Official control in China is inconsistent and patchy. For instance people soon worked out that if they got a red ping on their mobile app ordering them to isolate and denying them access to public areas they could screenshot someone else’s green app screen, and carry on with their lives. Their app was as rubbish as the U.K. one but their response was to be a lot less compliant than we were in the U.K. I was speaking to people in China online all through the pandemic and as always the way they were living their lives was very different to the way it was portrayed in the west.

In fact Confucian norms lay a great deal of emphasis on the duty of leaders to perform their obligations towards their people, especially in relation to natural disasters such as the pandemic. If they fail in their duty as the officials in the above case did the people have a right to, and do, highlight those failings. Hence the huge protest campaigns after the collapse of badly built school buildings in the Sichuan earthquake.

@TheKeatingFive

'Do you disagree that a culture of widespread mask wearing has costs to the deaf community (quite aside from any benefits, which is a separate question)?'

I don't speak for the deaf community. I spend a lot of time with deaf people and I will say the ones I know have pragmatically got on with their lives without a word of complaint about mask wearing, just practical advice about how to navigate it.

I have heard a lot of moaning about the impacts of mask wearing, but it was all from hearing people with zero history of any kind of deaf /HOH allyship before.

My point is- do not trot out deaf or hard of hearing people to make your point.

Deaf and HOH people have a lot of accessibility challenges. If this is a cause you wish to take up, I suggest you learn BSL, or write to the media you consume and ask for more or better closed captions, or support deaf owned businesses or or employ deaf people. Do something useful in consultation with the deaf community. Don't use people like my child to tell yourself you are being 'inclusive' rather than selfish when you decide it's too much hassle to protect other people's lives by putting a cloth rectangle on your face.

I will also say, that some deaf people may also have underlying health issues which make them particularly vulnerable to COVID. And it is well documented that being hospitalised is an especially challenging experience for a deaf person, worse so with COVID as they won't be able to have the benefit of a signing family member or friend there with them to help them communicate with hospital staff.

I also don't think the benefits of mask wearing are 'a separate question' - you framed the post as being a 'cost/benefit analysis' which makes it nonsensical to try to separate the two concepts. They are inherently linked.

The world is not over this pandemic even by a long shot. We are a mutation away from vaccines being overtaken by the virus unless the whole world is vaccinated. We all know this but we prefer not to think about it.

The UK is NOT one of the top countries in vaccinations in total population, only 67% of the UK has been fully vaccinated against Covid countries like Spain (77.5%) or Denmark (75.2%), two of the highest vaccinated countries in the world. Don't confuse total amount of vaccinated by population (taken from last year Census) to what many times the Daily Mail talks about 80% in vaccinations when only takes into account over UK over 16s.

Spain has almost reached the vaccination target of 90% over 12s. Even now people are wearing masks indoors and when in stadiums and schools are still strict with mask wearing and have installed thousand of ventilators in classrooms.

We can all say "I'm sick of the pandemic, I want my life back". The reality is that the pandemic is not over and a mask is the third line of defence protecting you and others from the droplets that will give you the virus.

Speaking as an asthmatic, with a granddaughter and a grandson who are asthmatic and knowing several other people with asthma, I can tell you that masks do not effect the breathing of asthmatics!

Speaking as someone with TN, I can tell you that not everyone with TN is unable to wear a mask. Some actually find masks useful, as cold and wind can be a trigger. However, some (me included) find masks impossible to wear and attempting to do so leads to an agonising attack. Given I can lose consciousness and wet myself when this happens, it's something I try to avoid at all costs in public.

My personal experience with a condition is not the same as that of others, and neither is yours.

@DifferentHair but people on this thread (and others) have expressly said that masks make communication difficult for them due to hearing loss. I have hearing loss and have found it incredibly difficult, trying to talk to people wearing masks and often behind screens, too. We're not 'trotting out deaf and HOH people to make a point'. We're telling you out experience, and you're dismissing it.

My point is- do not trot out deaf or hard of hearing people to make your point.

I'm not trotting out anyone.

My point is that there are costs to mask wearing.

The impact on the deaf community is one of they.

Once again I ask you, do you disagree with that? Really?

And yes of course the deaf community got on with wearing masks without complaint, where did I say otherwise. I'm saying this is not a cost free option for them.

I think you will find the cultural norm you are manifesting is the western orientalist stereotype of western agency and oriental passivity, and it has only been a norm since Victorian times.

Nonsense, there is a considerable body of work showing the early Christian church to have been key in consolidating western individualism

Still wearing masks - FFP2 - more or less as Whitty & Vallance have suggested - but also happy to remove my mask if someone indicates they have a hearing issue, just for communication.

Ultimately if masks are mandated by shops or by the government in the future I will simply curtail my shopping and spending habits just like I did before. If something annoys me then I won't spend my disposable income on it.

Big deal you might say but when restrictions were in place lots of places did suffer financially.

Why do you think they don't enforce the guidance now because if they think people will comply and they get enough profit why would they not do so? Why do you think most are happy to let the consumer decide?

@Stuffin - many of our local shops, hairdressers and our favourite deli cafe have mandatory mask wearing (unless medically exempt). The businesses are booming and always busy.

[quote Parker231]@Stuffin - many of our local shops, hairdressers and our favourite deli cafe have mandatory mask wearing (unless medically exempt). The businesses are booming and always busy.[/quote]
It's the opposite here. None are mandating them at all.

Have been to some places where they ask all visitors to wear a mask on their website but when you get there no one cares either way.

Stuffin - I care so 100% happy to continue to support businesses requiring a mask

@Parker231

Stuffin - I care so 100% happy to continue to support businesses requiring a mask

That's fine. You can find and support businesses making masks mandatory and others like myself will support those that don't.

But I don't understand people that want to make ALL places make masks mandatory so they feel better.

But I don't understand people that want to make ALL places make masks mandatory so they feel better

Not all places, indoor places. The virus is less likely to transmit on outdoors. Indoors is where the virus thrives and has nothing to do with people feeling better about it. It's a fact.

It’s up to each location / service to decide and if they don’t then they don’t.

It’s a mix here with some optional and others mandatory.

@Alondra

But I don't understand people that want to make ALL places make masks mandatory so they feel better

Not all places, indoor places. The virus is less likely to transmit on outdoors. Indoors is where the virus thrives and has nothing to do with people feeling better about it. It's a fact.

Then those that want everyone to wear masks despite them being optional can avoid those indoor places.

Over the past few months, has anyone been asked in shops and the like to wear a mask, if you're not? I've only been asked once, in my uni library. "Are you able to wear a mask?" they asked, I said "Yes, but I won't" and that was that. I remember the weekend of July 17th/18th on here there were some posters getting excited about the thought of non-maskers getting challenged by shop staff about not wearing a mask from July 19th but that's rarely happened from what I've seen.

TheKeating Nonsense, there is a considerable body of work showing the early Christian church to have been key in consolidating western individualism

Of course there is! There is a considerable body of academic work devoted to the project of Orientalism, implicit to which is othering “Asia” as you have done as a passive subject in contrast to western agency. However since Edward Said’s work in the 70s on the subject and the post Said debate the academic world is far more conscious of it’s own bias.

The Christian church arguably was the instrument which kept European societies compliant to their rulers for centuries. Far more compliant that Confucianism which actually sanctions rebellion when a ruler fails in their duty to their people. It was a long time before such notions of accountability on the part of the ruler crept into western society. Western individualism is a concept which was bought into focus by the enlightenment and the implicit project to prove the west has superiority and leadership, and was the source of progress in philosophy and almost every other area of culture. Never mind that the East was the main source of influence on the philosophy and arts of pre enlightenment Europe, and acknowledged as such by pre enlightenment thinkers.

But if you want to prop up your stereotypes of western superiority and agency in relation to “Asian” (assuming a homogeneity to the othered) then there is absolutely no shortage of western academic work you could turn to.

@southeastdweller

I remember reading all that and it’s not happened at all. You’re right.

implicit to which is othering “Asia” as you have done as a passive subject in contrast to western agency.

I haven't done anything of the sort, how ridiculous.

I've said there are cultural differences in different areas of the world, based on radically different history, societal and religious influences.

Then those that want everyone to wear masks despite them being optional can avoid those indoor places

The virus will transmit indoors whether a mask is optional or not. Mask wearing is a political decision taken against everything health and science already know about the virus.

@Alondra

Then those that want everyone to wear masks despite them being optional can avoid those indoor places

The virus will transmit indoors whether a mask is optional or not. Mask wearing is a political decision taken against everything health and science already know about the virus.

this

At least the detour into Edward Said is a refreshing change from the usual masks-in-Asian-countries script, which goes like this:

“I don’t know why people make such a fuss about mask-wearing, it’s been totally normal in Asia for decades”
“No it hasn’t.”
“Yes it has, people wear masks in metro Japan when they have colds and people wear masks in Chinese cities as an anti-pollution measure.”
“That’s not the same as ‘everyone wearing masks in every indoor public place’ though?”
“Obviously it’s different during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC.”
“So then they haven’t been all wearing masks indoors everywhere for decades have they?”
“But they realise it’s a GLOBAL PANDEMIC and nobody here does. Why are people in Britain so selfish, nobody grumbles in other countries, rainy plague island etc etc etc…”

The reality of the difference between many other cultures and the west, particularly the U.K. and US is that mask wearing, and indeed the other methods of infection control that are part of a public health response has become politicised. Elsewhere it is just that, a public health response that proved useful in their societies’ experience of previous epidemics, and does not require much of the individual. Here that has been branded a “leftist” project and the right wing have made resisting it part of their wider political agenda.

Personally I just see wearing a mask as a scientific project, if the scientific consensus is that in wearing a mask I am protecting others and contributing to reducing spread indoors (and it is) it really isn’t asking too much of me. I shall continue to also keep my distance from those not wearing a mask because they represent a greater risk of infection when the infection rates in my ward are currently running stubbornly at twice the level they have at any other time of the pandemic (including last winter). I have no rational reason to stop that practise now.

@Alondra

Then those that want everyone to wear masks despite them being optional can avoid those indoor places

The virus will transmit indoors whether a mask is optional or not. Mask wearing is a political decision taken against everything health and science already know about the virus.

This comes down to personal choice on risk though. I don't care if I come across the virus or not and assume I will do at some point multiple times.

So what if it spreads inside. If you feel that it is too bigger risk for you then don't go inside especially if you don't want to be around unmasked people.