Are people no longer bothered by Covid….?

[Iwannabelikeyouohh]

Is anyone actually bothered about Covid?
From places I’ve been recently, everyone is just “normal”

I took my son to a toddler class this morning.

I walked in wearing my mask. Room full of 19 other adults and their toddlers.

Not one single adult had a mask on (expect me)
There was no distancing in the class.
It was as normal as normal can be.

I joined a new slimming class tonight.

Again I walked in wearing a mask. No one else had one on.
All chairs pushed up together, people sat close.

I don’t get it.

How can we go from distancing, mask wearing, avoiding people on walks (which is exactly what it was like) to nothing….

Keating Yes we are a much more individualistic culture than many Asian nations. Didn't we always know that? There are pros and cons to this fact, but you don't over turn thousands of years of cultural norms in the space of a few months.

Your own words. A classic bit of othering orientalist rhetoric.

Haven’t stated in US dropped them for double vaccinated (or tested positive?)

After we’ve had Covid and vaccinated I’m wondering why a mask is still needed

It’s not likely for a few months that we’ll get it again it pass it on.

Also agree with Stuffin I wear one usually, esp if mandated

But the route for Covid in this house is secondary student. I don’t wear it due to my own risk perception and I don’t care of others do or not. Even if indoor element is there. Other people will feel differently which is up to them but the legal status means they just have to accept it.

Your own words. A classic bit of othering orientalist rhetoric.

So stating that cultures are different is 'othering' now.

Holy crap the standard of debating on here has absolutely plummeted.

What's the non othering position then? Concluding that all cultures are exactly the same despite their radically different history and influences?

I'm in Scotland so we're still supposed to wear marks. Recently holidayed in England and didn't wear a mask anywhere, though there were people who still did, which is their choice. It did feel weird going into shops without one. I don't worry about us catching Covid itself, more around the inconvenience of possibly having to isolate as I have a young child.

@southeastdweller

Over the past few months, has anyone been asked in shops and the like to wear a mask, if you're not? I've only been asked once, in my uni library. "Are you able to wear a mask?" they asked, I said "Yes, but I won't" and that was that. I remember the weekend of July 17th/18th on here there were some posters getting excited about the thought of non-maskers getting challenged by shop staff about not wearing a mask from July 19th but that's rarely happened from what I've seen.

I remember posting at the time that there was no way this was going to happen. Everyone was jumping to praise Sainsbury’s and Tesco because they released a statement that they still expected masks to be worn. Everyone saying they’d shop there because they ‘care’ about their customers. I said then, and it holds true today, that it was just a marketing ploy. They knew they couldn’t enforce it, they had absolutely no power to. They had no desire to either. By releasing those statements they could boost their image as a ‘caring’ supermarket without having to actually do anything. Clever marketing teams they have (I used to work for one of them, in marketing 😉).

*This comes down to personal choice on risk though. I don't care if I come across the virus or not and assume I will do at some point multiple times.

So what if it spreads inside. If you feel that it is too bigger risk for you then don't go inside especially if you don't want to be around unmasked people*

Health guidelines in a pandemic are not about personal risk. It's a political decision involving millions to protect a health system and country even from people themselves.

You are a good example why political decisions are crucial - you don't give a shit.

Keating I don’t think I am the one lowering the standard of debate by trotting out tired old stereotypes about entire geographical areas of the world when they clearly know nothing about the reality of lives lived there. If you want to discuss the differences between history and cultures as diverse as those of Japan, China, Cambodia, Thailand, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong then I am only too happy to oblige having both lived and worked in them, and studied them. I won’t be making sweeping statements about their actually very different responses to the Covid pandemic. I gave a few examples above of where the reality of life in China contradicts your assumptions of compliance, I note you have resorted to a straw man instead of actually debating that point.

Personally I just see wearing a mask as a scientific project, if the scientific consensus is that in wearing a mask I am protecting others and contributing to reducing spread indoors (and it is) it really isn’t asking too much of me. I shall continue to also keep my distance from those not wearing a mask because they represent a greater risk of infection when the infection rates in my ward are currently running stubbornly at twice the level they have at any other time of the pandemic (including last winter). I have no rational reason to stop that practise now.

And that's absolutely fine.

Others will make different decisions, and that's fine too.

Health guidelines in a pandemic are not about personal risk. It's a political decision involving millions to protect a health system and country even from people themselves.

You are a good example why political decisions are crucial - you don't give a shit.

Correct.

But equally there are others that share my opinion rather than yours including the government at this time. Strangely enough people differ on political decisions all the time.

I am still happier shopping where almost everyone wears a mask, and I am lucky to be able to do that locally.

These businesses appear to be doing well, their support for safe practices right now may well be based on wanting more profits, but that's understandable.

by trotting out tired old stereotypes about entire geographical areas of the world when they clearly know nothing about the reality of lives lived there

Actually what I've focused on are idiosyncrasies of western culture.

But you just keep living in your happy bubble where acknowledging any difference is 'othering'. I'm sure that's a super comforting thought for you coping with all this.

@Emilyontmoor

Keating I don’t think I am the one lowering the standard of debate by trotting out tired old stereotypes about entire geographical areas of the world when they clearly know nothing about the reality of lives lived there. If you want to discuss the differences between history and cultures as diverse as those of Japan, China, Cambodia, Thailand, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong then I am only too happy to oblige having both lived and worked in them, and studied them. I won’t be making sweeping statements about their actually very different responses to the Covid pandemic. I gave a few examples above of where the reality of life in China contradicts your assumptions of compliance, I note you have resorted to a straw man instead of actually debating that point.

Thank you for this. Couldn’t agree more.

@Emilyontmoor

The reality of the difference between many other cultures and the west, particularly the U.K. and US is that mask wearing, and indeed the other methods of infection control that are part of a public health response has become politicised. Elsewhere it is just that, a public health response that proved useful in their societies’ experience of previous epidemics, and does not require much of the individual. Here that has been branded a “leftist” project and the right wing have made resisting it part of their wider political agenda.

Personally I just see wearing a mask as a scientific project, if the scientific consensus is that in wearing a mask I am protecting others and contributing to reducing spread indoors (and it is) it really isn’t asking too much of me. I shall continue to also keep my distance from those not wearing a mask because they represent a greater risk of infection when the infection rates in my ward are currently running stubbornly at twice the level they have at any other time of the pandemic (including last winter). I have no rational reason to stop that practise now.

It becomes a political project when mandatory mask wearing is enacted and enforced by the state. This is a recent development in many Asian states- specifically in response to the covid pandemic- as it is elsewhere.

Stuffin Political decisions are subjective. Scientific consensus seeks to be objective (not perfect but it is an explicit factor shaping the processes that bring about consensus). Throughout the pandemic political decisions taken in spite of scientific advice or too slowly have led to unnecessary deaths. It is not a case of my opinion is equal to your expertise, especially when that opinion is based on dogma or ideology being clung to in spite of the evidence / reality.

Actually for me just at the moment Covid is the least of the problems that this false equivalence is causing. We have already lost three businesses on my high street, not because of Covid, they thrived on increased footfall as a result of home working etc. They have all given up in the face of staffing and supply shortages. Many others are reducing their hours and shifting less stock. Our local economy is in deep trouble as is our health and care sector as a result of political ideology trumping basic sound governance.

I hope one day this country will return to a situation where political decisions are informed by evidence and the expertise of not just Scientists but Economists and other experts in the basics of good governance. I am not sure I will stick around that long though.

The two main forces have been economic and virus and decisions reflect that.

Mask wearing does impact businesses apparently - there is info on this.

But also we don’t actually follow science even if it would free some people up. Take not removing mask wearing for vaccinated or post positive. I reckon it’s because we know mask wearing is highly socially motivated and others wearing it when there’s no need keeps it higher.

And I reckon there’s a fair few of these decisions based around behaviour- so if you accept that then it’s easier to see there’s a mix of reasons - economic / behaviourial and science dribing decisions. Which is how it should be.

And yes I know the whole suppression early argument

But only if you reach zero otherwise you can get rebound post early suppression - eg EE

Bizawit Yet Japan and China, the latter being cited here as the epitome of a repressive political system, have not at any point in the pandemic made mask wearing mandatory…..

@Emilyontmoor

Bizawit Yet Japan and China, the latter being cited here as the epitome of a repressive political system, have not at any point in the pandemic made mask wearing mandatory…..

Do you think they are more repressive in other areas?

Lockdown or stifling information

@Emilyontmoor

Bizawit Yet Japan and China, the latter being cited here as the epitome of a repressive political system, have not at any point in the pandemic made mask wearing mandatory…..

Actually I think they have been legally required in parts of China have at different points in the pandemic? I’m not an expert in the Chinese legal system, however!

In any case I’m sick of “Asia” or “Asian culture” (throughout time), as a monolith , being used to justify or refute covid masking policies in Europe!

Marsha For sure the Chinese Government are more repressive in other areas but not in any consistent way. The Chinese people actually face as many human rights abuses as a result of the lack of government regulation as they do from repressive political control. Corruption flourishes because the chances of being caught and suffering the draconian penalties are less than the chances of becoming rich. Secret societies have long been the third arm to Chinese society often used by government and officials to try to assert authority (see the attacks on Hong Kong protestors in Yuen Long station), as well as profit from local people, who, especially women and children, can find themselves trafficked internally as well as the more well known international networks that stretch into the U.K.

In that organic mess of power and influence people can and do protest against government failures and the suppression of information is not effective, there are lots of ways people get around it. In everyday life people navigate that uncertain environment and often engage in small acts of subversion, especially if they benefit financially. .

When the pandemic came though people were largely willing to conform to public health measures because they had seen them work in 2003 but as I highlighted above if they didn’t work, as with the app, the government did not get that compliance.

Prior to restrictions being lifted in July the government conducted research that indicated that continuing to mandate masks would cost the economy billions.

Principally, because the majority of people don't want to wear a mask in a spa/cinema/pub/restaurant/gig etc. That's the reality of the situation.

Case rates are fairly stable at the moment, they are not increasing in any meaningful way (there will be some variability day to day).

Masks alone will not reduce case numbers (we saw this in June/July when they were still mandated and cases were rising). If you want to decrease case numbers you will need much more significant restrictions (and there is no appetite for that at this time).

There will always be a group who consider that wearing masks indoors should be mandatory but the decision has been made and unless/until there is a significant uptick in case numbers I doubt any change to the policy will be made.

In any case I’m sick of “Asia” or “Asian culture” (throughout time), as a monolith , being used to justify or refute covid masking policies in Europe!

I'm not trying to justify or refute anything. However, I don't think it's in any way controversial to suggest that things like levels of uptake and/or compliance when it comes to various measures will be influenced by dominant cultural norms.

In any case I’m sick of “Asia” or “Asian culture” (throughout time), as a monolith , being used to justify or refute covid masking policies in Europe! Its a case of using the existing stereotypes to fit a political argument, rather than actually any interest in the reality. Ditto, the sudden concern for the plight of Cancer patients how many of these people were there to campaign on the postcode lottery on treatments or lack of funding for research into treatments for secondary Cancers or any of the other long term issues affecting Cancer patients?