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Liklihood of another lockdown?

341 replies

JustPloddingAlong123 · 14/09/2021 14:26

Yes I know nobody can tell the future. But I'm just wondering what the general consensus is/ how likely you think another lockdown is? I'm hoping worst case masks again.
I want to start my daughter back at a club she went too, we stopped because she doesn't get on with zoom lessons and it was a waste of money during lockdown. Worth signing her back up or waiting a bit longer?

OP posts:
marieantoinehairnet · 14/09/2021 19:06

Just asked my 74 year old father how he'd prefer to be described, his answer - ancient

He is CEV, and even he has said most of his peers think they're invincible now they've been jabbed and prioritised.

Sparklingbrook · 14/09/2021 19:06

Got to love a 'is there going to be another lockdown?' thread, they are like a comfy pair of slippers now. Grin
Maybe there should be one long thread rather than a bajillion separate ones?
I have no idea if there will be one but if people want to lock themselves down because they fancy one I guess that's their choice.. WFH in their loungewear and get some poor soul who can't WFH to deliver their groceries. Perfect.

Mickarooni · 14/09/2021 19:21

”Maybe because I don't want the CEV to be treated like sitting ducks.”

You don’t speak for all of us, thanks. I’m vaccinated but with a poor response due to an immunodeficiency and I have chronic lung disease. I’m pretty high risk but I’m back at work and out and about. You have no idea what CEV people are doing!

CantBeAssed · 14/09/2021 19:22

Don't know if there will be a full lockdown again but I could see the kids getting an extended break from school at Halloween.

Ttbhappy · 14/09/2021 19:23

No I don't think so otherwise wants the point of getting vaccinated

SonnetForSpring · 14/09/2021 19:44

@Thewiseoneincognito

Very likely, hence why they’re mentioning it now.

Remember when they said step 4 was irreversible and we’d not be locking down again? It seems they spoke too soon.

Either we’ll lockdown before winter starts or we’ll have a big mess by Christmas which is probably what they’re modelling for and we’ll have to lockdown from January again.

It will as always be the absolute last resort, so my guess is we should expect face masks mandated again soon and possible localised restrictions in place for a month or two. Normal living and Covid is not possible in the winter.

It will be interesting to see the public’s reaction once it becomes clear the vaccines can only do so much, the rest of the battle WE have to do if we only want to have a mildly bad winter.

Schools are our Achilles heel and so is the cold weather, we can NOT ‘live with Covid unmitigated’ whilst those two are in the mix.

I agree.
TheKeatingFive · 14/09/2021 20:01

so that some faceless corporation can make big, fat profits out of commercial rentals

A significant amount of ordinary people’s pension funds are very exposed to commercial property, so a collapse in this sector would be a huge societal issue, rather than just a slap in the face for a few rich bastards.

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2021 20:02

I'd pitch it at 75 - 80% chance we won't. 20 - 25% we will at this moment in time.

At most it will be a November style lite lockdown with kids in school I suspect. Its not going to be full closures of everything.

Lets see how the next 2 or 3 weeks progresses before we make more concrete predictions on that though tbh.

Generally speaking the last data hasn't been as bad as feared although case rates and deaths continue to creep up. Its slow and steady growth, which makes it easier to make intervention with less aggressive methods rather than the scary exponential growth of last September. Which is good.

This is an interesting blog on the subject:
unherd.com/2021/09/are-we-heading-for-another-winter-lockdown/?=frlh

Also, the shape of the curve is very different this time around. We’re at 120 deaths a day, but the growth rate is about 7% a week. There’s this neat trick for working out compound growth: if you divide 70 by the percentage weekly growth, you get the (rough) doubling time. So it will take about 10 weeks for deaths to double. By comparison, deaths were going up 50% a week for periods in autumn and winter, doubling about every 10 days.

Maybe that doesn’t matter and we don’t need to stop them. “The optimistic reading is that we now have so much immunity that it’ll peak on its own,” says Oliver Johnson. And there are hints that case numbers have begun to come down. But if it doesn’t, if it carries on as it is, then we’ll have 250 or so deaths a day by the middle of November, and the NHS under severe pressure.

And

Crucially, too, at that rate of growth we could end up at 2,000 hospitalisations a day — about half the January 2021 peak. If that were to happen, we probably won’t see hospitals running out of oxygen, like we did during the first two waves. But we might see it getting harder to access routine care. I spoke to one ophthalmologist earlier this year, and he said that quite a few patients suffered avoidable, but irreversible, sight loss because the sheer weight of Covid cases meant their treatment had to be delayed. That’s a microcosm of the health service in general: for comparison, 2017/18, the worst winter for excess deaths in the last half-century, saw a peak of about 1,000 hospitalisations and about 50 deaths a day, and that led to tens of thousands of hospital appointments being cancelled.

Oliver Johnson @bristoliver is a good (sane and moderate) follow if you are interested.

The government will want to avoid lockdowns for economic reasons and because that discourages people from seeking medical help when they first need it, instead leading to further problems down the line.

The reality this time around is the majority of pressure is likely to come from non-covid cases but covid will add a layer of complication, slow everything down and then covid cases will be the cherry on top of shortage of beds / service.

And I think its other health care issues which are going to face more problems rather than it being about covid patients.

I believe that any lockdown we have will be less to do with covid and more to do with inability to provide medical, police and fire cover over the winter imho. Which I think is a scary prospect in its own right.

(Manchester Airport closed for a couple of hours this week because there was a medical emergency at the airport which the ambulance took ages to get to. As a result the man was cared for by firefighters who are also trained to deal with medical emergencies but that meant there was no firecover available for the airport whilst they did that. This case should give you some idea of why there might be problems and why certainly some large events which require medical staff in attendance would be one of the first things likely to be potted - and why I think event passports are not as likely as some suggest. From a security point of view you are also going to want to avoid potential major incidents on top of hospitals being stretched).

I also don't rule out (and very much expect it) for the army to be drafted in to help with ambulance service problems at some point. Or similar.

Of course this would mean that events will end up cancelled, not due to covid restrictions, but the indirect problems caused by covid (which raises questions about government support / insurance).

I'm expecting things to start getting tricky in November and be pretty dreadful until end January.

Which may give people thought to reconsider at least some Christmas plans in order to facilitate Christmas Day itself. Some people will go crazy partying but others will very much remain cautious to ensure Christmas doesn't get cancelled again.

MercyBooth · 14/09/2021 20:04

Suck it up they said on here.
Its only for one Christmas they said.

lannistunut · 14/09/2021 20:07

@MercyBooth

Suck it up they said on here. Its only for one Christmas they said.
TBF, a lot of people said the opposite too, said it wouldn't just go away - and got called doom mongers on here for their trouble!!
RedToothBrush · 14/09/2021 20:09

One of the problems this year is because people didn't get care sooner for serious conditions to manage them and stop them becoming more serious, more people are presenting who are much sicker and need more care.

And we haven't been exposed to contagious diseases such as flu for a while so natural immunity levels are where we'd like them to be.

Its a perfect storm year rather than a covid year.

Tinydancer321 · 14/09/2021 20:13

@RedToothBrush totally agree

lannistunut · 14/09/2021 20:15

@RedToothBrush

One of the problems this year is because people didn't get care sooner for serious conditions to manage them and stop them becoming more serious, more people are presenting who are much sicker and need more care.

And we haven't been exposed to contagious diseases such as flu for a while so natural immunity levels are where we'd like them to be.

Its a perfect storm year rather than a covid year.

Given all that is true, we surely can't just let covid overrun the entire system, or people will wait even longer for operations etc.
NotMyCat · 14/09/2021 20:35

@Claudethecat

I think you are talking nasty ageist rubbish *@marieantoinehairnet*. All the older people I see are still wearing masks when asked to (in shops, public transport, doctor's surgery etc), sanitising and being very careful. Most know that they are still vulnerable to being very ill of they contract covid and can pass it on.
I think it's really area variable My friend says the same, most people she sees in the supermarket wearing a mask etc (with both go to Lidl but different cities) and especially older people I went to Lidl then Boots and could count on one hand people wearing a mask and it wasn't older people necessarily . Greggs, nobody in one
Onandoff · 14/09/2021 20:38

It’s going to run through children now and they rarely get sick from it. Once they’re done we should be at herd immunity.

ITUs are not overrun, my trust plateaued a few weeks ago. Vast majority admitted are vaccine refusers. The double vaccinated admitted tend to be vulnerable through age or health and vast majority of vaccinated are recovering quickly.

I just don’t see any lockdowns on the horizon or what the point of them would be as we accept this virus will be endemic. It’s a good idea though to get the 3rd dose of vaccine out now and to do the older children.

lannistunut · 14/09/2021 20:40

We won't get herd immunity, whether kids get it or not

Anon778833 · 14/09/2021 20:51

@DontWantTheRivalry

I have a sinking feeling about the upcoming months. I foresee a real shit show with poor outcomes.

My husband once said that Covid is like “survival of the fittest” and it feels like that’s the Government’s approach now.

They’re waving us all off with a “good luck” grin and leaving us to our fate.

It reminds me of the film Titanic - when carnage erupted because people quickly realised it was every man for himself.

I may be wrong and I hope I am.

But in general….I think things are going to go very downhill over the Autumn and Winter period.

Omg, I’m not being horrible but could you be any more gloomy? The whole situation is completely unpredictable. If people are sensible and those who can get the vaccine do then that will help to stop the virus from mutating.
RedToothBrush · 14/09/2021 20:51

Given all that is true, we surely can't just let covid overrun the entire system, or people will wait even longer for operations etc.

We can't lock down because of the effect on minor illnesses not being treated and becoming major illnesse's because people stay home in lockdown because they 'don't want to bother the doctor for minor issues'.

You just get caught more in a vicious cycle of delayed treatments becoming more serious and chronic and you get more indirect deaths the more you lock down.

Thus at this point if covid cases are only slowly ticking up and other restrictions are more effective than previously because vaccines are also disrupting chains of transmission, you want rely on those methods and try to avoid lockdowns if at all possible.

Dghgcotcitc · 14/09/2021 20:52

I don’t think a lockdown will help re other conditions. The problem is lack of exposure to some viruses (flu) is reducing immunity in the population and a reluctance of people to come forward for medical help when they should because they worry about the overwhelmed nhs neither of these is helped by lockdown both are in fact made much worse, we are in for a rocky road this year because of lockdown and will make it worse in 2022 if we keep going!

blueskytoday06 · 14/09/2021 20:56

Nope nope nope

lannistunut · 14/09/2021 20:58

@RedToothBrush

Given all that is true, we surely can't just let covid overrun the entire system, or people will wait even longer for operations etc.

We can't lock down because of the effect on minor illnesses not being treated and becoming major illnesse's because people stay home in lockdown because they 'don't want to bother the doctor for minor issues'.

You just get caught more in a vicious cycle of delayed treatments becoming more serious and chronic and you get more indirect deaths the more you lock down.

Thus at this point if covid cases are only slowly ticking up and other restrictions are more effective than previously because vaccines are also disrupting chains of transmission, you want rely on those methods and try to avoid lockdowns if at all possible.

We should not have a lockdown... but neither can we just do the 'live with it' i.e. ignore it route either.

IMO we should be getting on with mitigations. PM is dragging his feet again though.

MrsSkylerWhite · 14/09/2021 20:59

Unlikely.
Sensible precautions (masks, SD) yes, lockdown, no.

ethelredonagoodday · 14/09/2021 21:04

I have a friend who works in a govt department in comms. They are already scenario planning for an autumn lockdown.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 14/09/2021 21:05

@NannyAndJohn

Latest SAGE findings:

"There is a clear consensus that continued high levels of homeworking has played a very important role in preventing sustained epidemic growth in recent months. It is highly likely that a significant decrease in homeworking in the next few months would result in a rapid increase in hospital admissions."

Hopefully WFH is here to stay.

You really don't get it do you? You might be happy working from home but it doesn't suit everyone. No doubt you have a separate office and not the dining table but not all of us have that.

And don't even think of coming out with the patronising bollocks from the other day about living in squalor!

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2021 21:05

lannistunut , there is a reason I am still wearing my mask when no other fucker is even though I don't have to and I'm not clinically vulnerable...

...fully expecting it at some point.