All 12-15s to be offered single dose of Pfizer, CMOs decide

[bagofconkers]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-to-be-offered-to-children-aged-12-to-15-chief-medical-officers-decide-12402855

@Tealightsandd

But it’s not enough of a benefit for the vaccine to be recommended on medical benefit alone?

Well it is in most of the world. USA, Canada, Europe, Asia, the Middle East.

We are not in any of those places thankfully.

Those countries weren’t necessarily only looking at medical benefits either when they made their decisions.

Hooray. Cant wait to get my 2 done .

Im a vaccinator and a mental health practitioner.... so i obviously feel strongly about them having it to protect their mental health from more periods of isolation, missing education, missing friends and the risk of long Covid in teenagers.

@Silverswirl

With respect, I'm pretty sure you are incorrect.

In secondary schools, some older children may be sufficiently mature to provide their own consent if their parents have not returned a consent form and they express a wish to have a vaccine on the day of the session. The team will speak to the child and will be responsible for assessing the appropriateness of administering the vaccine. This will include making every effort to contact the parent to seek their verbal consent and/or an assessment of the individual child’s capacity to self-consent, where appropriate.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/flu-vaccination-in-schools/flu-vaccination-programme-2021-to-2022-briefing-for-schools

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@Silverswirl

With respect, I'm pretty sure you are incorrect.

In secondary schools, some older children may be sufficiently mature to provide their own consent if their parents have not returned a consent form and they express a wish to have a vaccine on the day of the session. The team will speak to the child and will be responsible for assessing the appropriateness of administering the vaccine. This will include making every effort to contact the parent to seek their verbal consent and/or an assessment of the individual child’s capacity to self-consent, where appropriate.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/flu-vaccination-in-schools/flu-vaccination-programme-2021-to-2022-briefing-for-schools[/quote]
Not in our county. No consent by midnight of the cut off date (which is well before the actual flu date) No vaccination in school.
I know parents who have called in on the day to give consent verbally as they forgot to fill in the online form and the child is still not allowed to have it, there will be many who do the same this year too.
I ask again, do you have any children in school in England currently years 1-11? If so, you might be shocked to read the consent information letter coming your way- it explicitly states that if you have not given consent by midnight on x date your child will not be vaccinated in school.

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@Silverswirl

With respect, I'm pretty sure you are incorrect.

In secondary schools, some older children may be sufficiently mature to provide their own consent if their parents have not returned a consent form and they express a wish to have a vaccine on the day of the session. The team will speak to the child and will be responsible for assessing the appropriateness of administering the vaccine. This will include making every effort to contact the parent to seek their verbal consent and/or an assessment of the individual child’s capacity to self-consent, where appropriate.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/flu-vaccination-in-schools/flu-vaccination-programme-2021-to-2022-briefing-for-schools[/quote]
If they don’t accept late consent from the parent, pretty sure they aren’t going to accept consent from the child on the day either.
I can see what the government links say but meanwhile.. back in the real world things are a little different in practice

@Silverswirl

I ask again, do you have any children in school in England currently years 1-11?

Okay, you have not once asked me this question. You asked me if I had school aged children, which I answered.
No, I do not have any children at school in England.

I'm not sure why I would be 'shocked' by a letter coming my way, when advice from the Government, the NHS and PHE all say my child could consent to their own vaccination, which is exactly what I would want them to be able to do.

Yes, they cannot accept your consent after their cut off date/time. They can accept consent from the child, it's a separate form.

This was released back in June, which was about 7 years ago in Covid time, so worth a bump:

The MHRA concludes positive safety profile for Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in 12- to 15-year-olds

Dr June Raine, MHRA Chief Executive said:
“We have carefully reviewed clinical trial data in children aged 12 to 15 years and have concluded that the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective in this age group and that the benefits of this vaccine outweigh any risk.

“We have been very careful to take into consideration the younger age group and the benefits of this population being vaccinated against any potential risk of side effects. There has been a thorough assessment and review of this data which was also looked at specifically by the CHM’s Paediatric Medicines Expert Advisory Group who are scientific experts within this age group, as well as the CHM’s COVID-19 Vaccines Benefit Risk Expert Working Group.

“We have concluded that based on the data we have seen on the quality, effectiveness and safety of the vaccine, its benefits do outweigh any risk.

www.gov.uk/government/news/the-mhra-concludes-positive-safety-profile-for-pfizerbiontech-vaccine-in-12-to-15-year-olds

*MHRA = Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency
CHM = Commission on Human Medicines

Now that vaccine passports are not going to be a thing, neither of my kids want it. One is almost 18, one almost 13, apparently they are old enough to decide themselves so I guess that’s the decision made than. Lots of their friends were thinking of having it done due to the passports and having to get tests if not vaccinated but now apparently they aren’t going to have it. I’ll be interested to see uptake rates.

@DumplingsAndStew

Yes, they cannot accept your consent after their cut off date/time. They can accept consent from the child, it's a separate form.

Wrong. Not in England there isn’t. Not currently anyway. If there was any chance of my child getting that vaccine without my consent, do you seriously think that letter wouldn’t have mentioned it? Even a little line on there anywhere to parents to say ‘if your child gives consent on the day, you will be contacted’ or similar? Get real! Unless where you live is vastly different to what happened in England your wishes are not currently based in actual reality with what happens in school

And the science seems to suggest kids get better long term protection from catching it rather than having been vaccinated.

I think it's important to bear in mind, though, that vaccinated people are also going to end up with "natural immunity" as well---we're all going to catch the virus itself, natural or not. It's not like "if you choose to get vaccinated immunity, you're foregoing the opportunity to get natural immunity instead."

I agree with the other things you wrote, though.

@Silverswirl

I don't see the need for you to be so rude.

The fact is that your letter doesn't state that 12-18 year olds can override parental non consent. Okay.

But the fact is that in England published and widely available literature from the UK Government, the NHS and Public Health England all say that a child who, after discussion, is deemed to be competent to can consent to immunisation on their own behalf.

That is real, not my wishes, but the reality.

I don't see any benefit in that being denied, when all parents should be aware of it.

What happens if separated parents can't agree on this? I know children will have the overall say but I'm taking more the younger age range
The vast majority of neurotypical children will be judged to be able to make their own choice about consent. People may well push to make great hay/media coverage/ test cases in law of disputes but the idea of things like Gillick competent are well rehearsed already.

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@Silverswirl

I don't see the need for you to be so rude.

The fact is that your letter doesn't state that 12-18 year olds can override parental non consent. Okay.

But the fact is that in England published and widely available literature from the UK Government, the NHS and Public Health England all say that a child who, after discussion, is deemed to be competent to can consent to immunisation on their own behalf.

That is real, not my wishes, but the reality.

I don't see any benefit in that being denied, when all parents should be aware of it.[/quote]
Yes, I do get your point but mine is that for flu this isn’t the case in schools (where I live anyway)
If a child desperately wanted a flu spray and no consent was given then I’m guessing the gp would be the next place to go to - I’m
Not saying this wouldn’t be possible, what I am saying is that on this particular day in school, my child won’t be given the spray if I don’t want her to be given it. Giving a child something against parents consent isn’t just a snap decision in a classroom / hall one day. It would take time for a decision to be reached and that’s not going to happen on a tight schedule of spraying 1000 kids in a day
Also there is a huge difference in maturity between a 12 year old and a 16 year old.

Said on the news that vaccine is for wider society and not for the health of the child.

I'm not comfortable so will wait until I am. No one shouid feel pressured and everyone should do what they are comfortable with.

I also don’t think that kids are going to be vaccinated without their parents’ consent in schools in the next few weeks, regardless of whether the government says it would be legal. They want to use the vaccine in schools program to deliver the vaccine because it’s well established and effective and that is not how the vaccines in schools program works. To add an element of taking kids whose parents haven’t consented and having in depth discussions with them and phone calls home would be chaos.

I also think it would represent a breach of trust between schools and parents which would be very damaging for schools, even though it’s not schools themselves doing the jab.

I think the main reasoning for the vaccine was for the good of Children, not only from the health benefits (which are there by admittedly marginal) but for protecting the mental health and education of young people moving forward to allow them to get back to being young people!

I think most kids that age will go with their parents decision if the parents have made it for them or with them anyway. This will either be because they trust their parents or possibly because they’d be afraid of the consequences of going against their parents the latter obviously isn’t great, but will mean that there probably won’t be many instances of kids overruling a parents decision.

@Silverswirl

Not saying this wouldn’t be possible, what I am saying is that on this particular day in school, my child won’t be given the spray if I don’t want her to be given it. Giving a child something against parents consent isn’t just a snap decision in a classroom / hall one day. It would take time for a decision to be reached and that’s not going to happen on a tight schedule of spraying 1000 kids in a day

That is fair. Yes, on a rushed day its unlikely, as gaining a child's consent is a process that isn't (and shouldn't be) fast, and parents/carers are usually involved in that process to a degree too.

It's also important to note that not giving consent to a child having a vaccine is not the same as denying consent. If a parent or carer is seriously against a vaccine being given, they need to fill in the form to say that they do not consent. That cannot and will not be overlooked. However, if a consent form is not returned either way, then legally steps can be taken to allow a competent child over the age of 12 to make that decision themselves.

I do think that, although this legislation is available publicly, this should be made clearer when seeking parental consent.

If the vaccine was for the good of the child then mine would get it. But it’s not. It’s for the greater good and I am very uncomfortable with the idea of children being injected to protect adults.

It’s our job to protect them, not the other way round. It sits so uncomfortably with me and clearly with many other posters too.

My DC are fully vaccinated against all childhood diseases.

@Sirzy

I think the main reasoning for the vaccine was for the good of Children, not only from the health benefits (which are there by admittedly marginal) but for protecting the mental health and education of young people moving forward to allow them to get back to being young people!

The mental health/education problems were caused by political decisions irt to closing schools and requiring testing/isolation for close contacts. They created a problem that they are now ‘solving’ by offering a vaccine with minimal health benefits to a population of which a majority is already thought to be immune.

The mental health/education problems were caused by political decisions irt to closing schools and requiring testing/isolation for close contacts. They created a problem that they are now ‘solving’ by offering a vaccine with minimal health benefits to a population of which a majority is already thought to be immune.

I know messages are dialled up when useful but it is galling to see this pushed so strongly when many have said the harm is too big all this time.

Someone on my Facebook posted this from panda which is anti virus, especially for boys:

Teenage boys more at risk from vaccines than Covid

A major study has found that teenage boys are 6 times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. During periods when Covid hospitalisations are low, this rises to more than 22 times.

The highest risk of a “cardiac adverse event” are boys aged between 12 and 15 and boys are more than 12 times more likely than girls of the same age to suffer these effects.

The risk of severe Covid in children is vanishingly small: the infection fatality rate for under 19s globally is just 0.003% according to the CDC. Neither is ‘Long Covid’ an issue in children, as PANDA has shown many times.

It’s for that reason that even relatively rare adverse effects from the vaccines quickly cancel out any potential benefit to children, as this study demonstrates. And that’s without even considering the unknown long-term effects of mRNA vaccines.

The UK’s Health Secretary, Sajid Javid, seemed to tacitly acknowledge this when he said, chillingly, that the government wanted to “consider the vaccination of 12- to 15-year-olds from a broader perspective.”

What “broader perspective” is there for giving millions of children a vaccine they don’t need, and very possibly does them net harm? Is he referring to the need to protect adults by lowering transmission? ‘Taking one for the team’?

Leaving aside the abhorrent morality in this, studies have shown again and again that children are not major vectors of transmission, and that the vaccines have poor efficacy against transmission, evidenced in real life by the record daily cases in highly-vaxxed countries like England and Israel.

Once again, science has been upended by politics and once again, it is children who will suffer most.

A 12-year-old has 70+ years of remaining life expectancy. That’s 70+ years for unknown long-term vaccine effects to manifest themselves. For vaccines using mRNA technology for the first time ever.

Taking that risk with millions of children for a disease that scarcely affects them is madness.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

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I don't know what to make of it.