All 12-15s to be offered single dose of Pfizer, CMOs decide

[bagofconkers]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-to-be-offered-to-children-aged-12-to-15-chief-medical-officers-decide-12402855

I didn't say the large numbers of adverse events reported to VAERS were not being investigated properly, @ollyollyoxenfree - tho I've yet to see any evidence that they are. If you know of any, I'd be relieved to see it.

As i said, how do you think the links of myocarditis to the mRNA vaccines was first highlighted, and then confirmed?

My meaning was it's a shame that a system designed to be used to help collect data on vaccine adverse events - and then investigate them - has been misused in this way.

I'm sorry you refuse to see the issues with the system. They are well-known and I'm confident in my statements. Have a look on any anti-vax FB group and you'll see what I mean. They know how to play the system - sadly.

Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I am not the one saying that VAERS does not produce valuable signals of potential problems with Covid vaccines.

That's AlixandraTheGreat, who thinks that VAERS data is completely unreliable, deliberately manipulated, and fraudulent. Not me. I'm aware of its usefulness - and its limitations.

@AlixandraTheGreat 'misused in WHAT way'?? You really cannot keep spouting this stuff, and then refer me to antivax Facebook groups for 'evidence' to back up your claims! Tho apparently you can 🤷🏻

@HBGKC

Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I am not the one saying that VAERS does not produce valuable signals of potential problems with Covid vaccines.

That's AlixandraTheGreat, who thinks that VAERS data is completely unreliable, deliberately manipulated, and fraudulent. Not me. I'm aware of its usefulness - and its limitations.

You asked "I've yet to see any evidence that they are (being used to identify AEs), If you know of any, I'd be relieved"

I gave you an example

Think of VAERS like Trip Advisor and other schemes like Booking.
Anybody can leave a review on TA. But other platforms only accept reviews from confirmed service buyers.

The extrapolation is also important. On another thread someone is saying 86% of teenagers have reported adverse reactions. What she doesn't say is that 1 of those cases was a "life threatening" event - so probably a serious allergic reaction, 7 were categorised "serious" (needing medical attention) and all the others were things like a sore arm .

There are sources, and then there are sources.

[quote HBGKC]@AlixandraTheGreat 'misused in WHAT way'?? You really cannot keep spouting this stuff, and then refer me to antivax Facebook groups for 'evidence' to back up your claims! Tho apparently you can 🤷🏻[/quote]

Yep, I can - they don't exactly hang out in fancy places It's a primary source.

Thank you @ollyollyoxenfree. It seems we're actually in agreement: VAERS data flags up statistically significant numbers of adverse events relating to Covid shots, which, in the case of AstraZeneca + myocarditis was acted upon.

No-one is suggesting that VAERS data (and the UK yellow card system) doesn't require further investigation and verification. Unfortunately, the sheer volume of reports over the last six months has left them scrambling to catch up. (And it is universally recognised that these databases will only ever represent a small percentage of the real world numbers - estimates vary: 1-10% of cases ever get reported).

Some might say the prudent thing would be to pause the current roll-out of these brand-new shots with no long-term safety profile (or at least not extend it to third booster shots and 12-15 year olds) until we'd had a chance to properly examine the huge numbers of reports coming in. Our govt disagrees.

@HBGKC

That's AlixandraTheGreat, who thinks that VAERS data is completely unreliable, deliberately manipulated, and fraudulent. Not me. I'm aware of its usefulness - and its limitations.

Yes, and? ( Although I wouldn't say that for all of the data on VAERS.)

@HBGKC

Thank you *@ollyollyoxenfree*. It seems we're actually in agreement: VAERS data flags up statistically significant numbers of adverse events relating to Covid shots, which, in the case of AstraZeneca + myocarditis was acted upon.

No-one is suggesting that VAERS data (and the UK yellow card system) doesn't require further investigation and verification. Unfortunately, the sheer volume of reports over the last six months has left them scrambling to catch up. (And it is universally recognised that these databases will only ever represent a small percentage of the real world numbers - estimates vary: 1-10% of cases ever get reported).

Some might say the prudent thing would be to pause the current roll-out of these brand-new shots with no long-term safety profile (or at least not extend it to third booster shots and 12-15 year olds) until we'd had a chance to properly examine the huge numbers of reports coming in. Our govt disagrees.

VAERS data flags up statistically significant numbers of adverse events relating to Covid shots, which, in the case of AstraZeneca + myocarditis was acted upon.

Urm, what do you mean by statistically significant? What are you actually comparing these numbers to?

When a specific adverse event is reported frequently (and importantly, in higher rates than in comparison to a comparable unvaccinated population), it is investigated. This is how the link between myocarditis and the mRNA vaccine (not AZ as you said) was identified.

The fact that there are reports in varying numbers of other AE does not make them "statistically significant"

(And it is universally recognised that these databases will only ever represent a small percentage of the real world numbers - estimates vary: 1-10% of cases ever get reported).

Oft reported, totally untrue in the context.

The 10% figure (not 1) was given by VAERS a decade ago.

There a huge differences now than from 10 years ago which will increase reporting, not limited to: increased internet and computer access, increased knowledge of the reporting system and general awareness, increased scientific literacy, living through a literal pandemic for which the vaccine was designed, the huge media reporting of AEs and vaccination, and the fact that HCPs, vaccinators, doctors all make a point to tell people to report side effects. This was not the case for previous vaccines.

Every person vaccinated gets an info leaflet which clearly explains the importance of reported AEs, and how this can be done on the phone or online.

"Urm, what do you mean by statistically significant?"

I mean that 1 case of myocarditis following a vaccine is not statistically significant. 100 cases are. HTH.

What is your estimate of the percentage of real world adverse events that translate into a report on a VAERS-type database? And what do you base that estimate on?

@HBGKC

"Urm, what do you mean by statistically significant?"

I mean that 1 case of myocarditis following a vaccine is not statistically significant. 100 cases are. HTH.

What is your estimate of the percentage of real world adverse events that translate into a report on a VAERS-type database? And what do you base that estimate on?

I mean that 1 case of myocarditis following a vaccine is not statistically significant. 100 cases are.

Mm no this is incorrect and a misunderstanding of how the data would be analysed. 1000s of adverse events would not be "statistically significant" (a term not really used in stats or epi anymore btw) if a comparable number were observed in an unvaccinated cohort of people.

So for example if 5000 people reported feeling depressed post vaccination, but a comparable number reported similar who had not been vaccinated, this would indicate it was not caused by the vaccine. You must compare to the baseline rate in the population not just panic over raw numbers.

Nevertheless, myocarditis has been identified to be causally linked to the mRNA vaccines by the use of these reporting systems, which has been used to inform policy. So I'm not sure why you're implying the data isn't properly assessed?

I have no idea given that it's not an area of research I'm not involved in, however given that it was 10% a decade ago you can safely assume (for all the reasons listed), it is much higher now.

Well Gavin Williamson just got reshuffled from Education.

From Sky News. I would be furious if anyone protested outside my DC’s school. If students (and their parents) want to have the vaccination that’s up to them. The vaccinators know how to handle cases where the Gillick rule is relevant. The anti vaxxers shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a school

Headteachers advised to contact police to deal with COVID jab protests at schools

Headteachers who anticipate protests outside their school over participation in the COVID vaccination programme should contact police to help manage the situation, guidance suggests.

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) said it is aware some schools have been receiving campaign letters and emails with "misinformation" about the vaccine programme, after the government confirmed children aged 12 to 15 will be able to get a first jab from next week.

Three million youngsters across the UK will be eligible to get the jab, with the programme expected to be delivered primarily within schools.

In new guidance, the agency said it knows of schools seeking advice on how to handle protests and suggests they get in touch with the School Age Immunisation Service (SAIS) team at the "first opportunity" to understand "what security planning they have in place".

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) said it is aware some schools have been receiving campaign letters and emails with "misinformation" about the vaccine programme, after the government confirmed children aged 12 to 15 will be able to get a first jab from next week.

UsForThem ladies and gentlemen... where the average member is about as intelligent as a fridge magnet.

@DumplingsAndStew

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) said it is aware some schools have been receiving campaign letters and emails with "misinformation" about the vaccine programme, after the government confirmed children aged 12 to 15 will be able to get a first jab from next week.

UsForThem ladies and gentlemen... where the average member is about as intelligent as a fridge magnet.

Just let me cover the ears of my fridge magnets in case they hear the slur.

[quote namechangerforthisconfessionn]@Comedycook I don't think the press are allowed to post articles showing vaccine complications, I personally know 2 people (1 still in hospital) and know of friends of friends yet nothing is ever in the news so I don't think we would ever hear of the true risk of complications [/quote]
They are allowed to. There is an article in the daily mail just today and I have seen others.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9993515/Show-jumper-22-suffered-extremely-rare-reaction-Moderna-vaccine-never-ride-again.html

Yes, I do get your point but mine is that for flu this isn’t the case in schools (where I live anyway)
If a child desperately wanted a flu spray and no consent was given then I’m guessing the gp would be the next place to go to - I’m
Not saying this wouldn’t be possible, what I am saying is that on this particular day in school, my child won’t be given the spray if I don’t want her to be given it. Giving a child something against parents consent isn’t just a snap decision in a classroom / hall one day. It would take time for a decision to be reached and that’s not going to happen on a tight schedule of spraying 1000 kids in a day
Also there is a huge difference in maturity between a 12 year old and a 16 year old

@Silverswirl, the covid vaccine school consent letter was exactly the same. (Already had them in special needs schools and I am sure it’s the same standard letter everyone gets). It said if the form wasn’t signed and returned by a certain date there would be no vaccine given.