All 12-15s to be offered single dose of Pfizer, CMOs decide

[bagofconkers]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-to-be-offered-to-children-aged-12-to-15-chief-medical-officers-decide-12402855

@Lostinacloud

On the contrary *@noblegiraffe*, I read the news and asp between the lines of the news. Yesterday Savid Javid said there won’t be vaccine passports. Today, Boris Johnson said, they may prove a useful tool over the winter period so it’s important not to rule anything out.

Boris might as well have said that vaccine passports will be brought in at some point in the future. And now 12-15 year olds have the “choice” to be vaccinated, it will include them too.

Hmm, where have I seen this in action already? - oh yes, literally across the channel in France, where an unvaccinated 12 year old can’t even eat in a restaurant with his vaccinated parents or go to his local football club to play.

That’s exactly the life I want for my children and of course for their “choices” and bodily autonomy decisions to lead to discrimination and segregation.

That's not true about France. Or any other EU country. You need a pass, OR a negative test, OR a recovered from Covid cert. Like you do to go abroad from the UK.

Thanks @Tealightsandd He’s doing really well at staying cheerful and he’s improved so much since last year in lots of ways. It’s just this heart issue that’s giving us a bit of worry at the moment, but we do have fantastic care which is a huge help. Thanks for thinking of him

@BewareTheLibrarians hope your son continues to improve

@Lostinacloud

No, I’m arguing that more people need to change the way they think

But who the hell do you think you are? It's not your place to challenge people to 'change the way they think'.

You don't want to get your kids vaccinated - fine - no-one here is trying to change your mind.

Other people do want to get their kids vaccinated - you think you need to help them change the way they think?

Like who even are you?!

@Geamhradh for now! In Greece negative tests are no longer valid for restaurants or cafes and in France, covid testing is not going to be free anymore from mid October so that doesn’t leave people who’ve chosen to remain unvaccinated much option if they can’t afford tests and haven’t managed to catch covid in the past 6 months.

@Lostinacloud

No, I’m arguing that more people need to change the way they think and look further ahead at the consequences of allowing things to continue on this path. Adults are already discriminated against when they return from abroad, despite having a negative test like their vaccinated travelling companion. They were about to be discriminated against from the end of the month to get into a nightclub. Yes those plans have been scrapped for now but they are still going ahead in Scotland and are kept in ‘reserve’ if needed for England. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that it will be reinstated at some point in the future and now that kids have the ‘choice’ they’ll be included. I am asking for people to be wary of the background to everything that is taking place so that more people can draw their red line before it goes too far. For some people that may have been the CMO’s overruling a JVCI decision but if not, then I hope people will think of where their line is and be willing to ensure that “choice” doesn’t become forced or a point of discrimination as that is already happening and imho is about to include our children; as in the case in many countries already.

Ok, so you don't think all teens should be denied the option, just because you don't want your own child to be vaccinated?

Everyone on here is arguing their point @DumplingsAndStew, I’m no different. Fine you don’t like what I have to say, ignore it - you have a choice and I’m pro choice too.

You’ve not understood my point either @ollyollyoxenfree.

@Dustyboots sorry to hear of the rare stuff going on on your family. Rare stuff sucks.

My point is (again!) that yes it’s rare, but why did ds get it? He’s not cv, not cev, he’s not elderly, obese, doesn’t have any underlying conditions, is even the half the ethnicity that’s typically least affected by covid. So why him?

It doesn’t just affect children with underlying conditions. You can’t reliably predict which children will be fine and which will be worse affected. With that uncertainty it feels reckless to me for people to be so blasé about it. I can understand why they do, but having experienced it first hand I have a different opinion.

Lost believes that the govt is desperate to introduce vaccine passports to all and sundry for every activity when they u-turned on introducing them just for adults in nightclubs and yet thinks it’s everyone else who are the ones having problems with their thinking.

You go ahead and vaccinate your teens. And please make sure you support those parents who choose not too when their children start being ostracised.

We’ll see won’t we @noblegiraffe. I mean the government have honoured every last one of their previous statements and u-turns

@Lostinacloud

You go ahead and vaccinate your teens. And please make sure you support those parents who choose not too when their children start being ostracised.

Start being ostracised by whom? I shan't be supporting any parent who refuses to vaccinate their child. I shall be very sympathetic to the child.

@Lostinacloud

You go ahead and vaccinate your teens. And please make sure you support those parents who choose not too when their children start being ostracised.

But again, this is your hypothetical fear.

I've said this on other threads that there needs to be strong messaging from PHE, schools and others to try and prevent this happening. And this was quite a clear message given by CW - that it's not clear cut, people will have different opinions.

But you're using it as a reason to deny all teens the option, which is about as far from pro choice as you can get.

Omg what the hell is wrong with people? Average age of covid death is 82.

I really don't think you actually understand what average means, tbh. Not good at maths, I would imagine.

Boris is a libertarian when it comes to covid, Lost. I was surprised when he said vaccine passports would be introduced, not surprised when he u-turned.

He’s pretty against covid restrictions in general. Most of our restrictions have had exemptions that other countries have not had.

Beware

My apologies, i missed the information about your son. I can only imagine its very worrying.

But it is rare.

Very rare.

The arguments for vaccinating 3 million people just simply do not hold up.

I say it again- 3 million kids vaccinated to save 1 day in 20 kids!

Don't get me wrong, if passport vaccines come in etc then i will get my teens vaccinated since they will then benefit from restriction free holidays or activities.

But right now there is no benefit whatsoever since Chris Witty himself said it wont stop disruption and they're only getting one dose.

Im not worried about vaccine safety either - i think its perfectly safe. I'm just not happy vaccinating for no benefit.

For what its worth, if its safe i want mine to have two doses - i don't care about covid but i do want restriction free travel. That would be my pure motivation given their low risk.

Without that, and with no restrictions on them for being unvaccinated, one could argue the government know they're on shaky ground.

If they cared that much they'd have said 'no school isolation for vaccinated contacts' to improve uptake

They didnt and we should all ask why

I would expect them to cause a bit of inconvenience to unvaccinated kids (like adults) but they haven't. I expect that's because the strength of the arguement isnt there

I belivee all parents have right to have vaccine if they want to but to say is based on science its wrong. If you're the type of parent who is worried about covid, you should have it and it will give you peace of mind. But healthy kids do not need it and its a lie for them to be sold n any other way.

@ollyollyoxenfree for once we agree! Prevention from the choice not to vaccinate becoming negative is all I am arguing for. You only have to look at the comment from above your post to see that it is not a hypothetical fear that I have!

I think it’s all a bit weird.

Does anyone else think that?

The reasons behind it. Maybe I’ve stopped listening carefully enough or paying enough attention, but something doesn’t add up.

@Watapalava

If they cared that much they'd have said 'no school isolation for vaccinated contacts' to improve uptake

Contacts under the age of 18 do not have to isolate. What you are asking for here is for them to introduce isolating for under 18s who are unvaccinated.

That does not at all fit in with what you say you want. Are you confused?

And @Watapalava, as much as I agree with your scientific argument, a healthy child at virtually no risk of the illness should never have to be vaccinated just so they can travel freely or do activities. This kind of idea gradually becoming accepted as normal is exactly what I am ‘hypothetically’ worried about.

@Lostinacloud

you have a choice and I’m pro choice too.

I want you to have a choice whether to vaccinate your child or not. I fully support vaccinations not being mandatory.
You don't want me to have a choice whether to vaccinate my child or not. You don't think they should be offered to children.

How are you pro-choice?

You want to be pro-choice for yourself, but you don't want other people to have that right.

DS is 16 in 3 months time. It's deemed ok for 16+ to have it. He says he wants it. I have to trust the experts here

Ok, one more time @DumplingsAndStew

I want you to have a choice to vaccinate your teen if you want to, I want me to have the choice not to vaccinate my teen if I want to.

What I don’t want to happen is for non-vaccinated children to be discriminated against or made to feel socially uncomfortable because of that choice, a scenario that isn’t likely to affect vaccinated children judging on the precedent set so far regarding adult choice of vaccination. I am asking for everybody’s choice regarding vaccination to be respected with no further judgement just like in the good old days.

Chris witty didn’t even sound convinced himself or he wouldn’t have said everyone needs to make the decision themselves . He also double repeated that it was a “choice “ said no children will be penalised either way .