All 12-15s to be offered single dose of Pfizer, CMOs decide

[bagofconkers]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-to-be-offered-to-children-aged-12-to-15-chief-medical-officers-decide-12402855

Soon nobody will be able to access places or enjoy social events unless they’ve had the latest booster vaccination.

You don't appear to read the news, Lost.

@Watapalava are you going to make me type out all my posts again? Do you just ignore any that don’t for your incorrect narrative?

Most kids you know have been fine. My child has not. He’s still having problems directly caused by covid over a year later. He’s not cv, or CEV. Just a bog standard normal healthy kid, before he caught covid.

So which one of us wins? You don’t know any kids who got ill. I do. So?

No one is compelled to get vaccinated.

@Lostinacloud

Omg what the hell is wrong with people? Average age of covid death is 82.

82 not 12!!

Thousands of reports - anecdotal, media led and international - which demonstrate that vaccinations don’t stop spread. Even if they inhibit it very slightly, they don’t STOP it.

Virtually zero reports of long covid in children being serious or lasting more than 4 months. Of course I’m very sad and sorry for the rare few children who have been adversely affected but why does this example of “rare” compel people to vaccinate their children against JVCI advice and ignore the ‘rare’ but very serious side effects of the vaccine?

Finally, when do you think this will end if we just carry on blindly following what we’re told? Soon nobody will be able to access places or enjoy social events unless they’ve had the latest booster vaccination. All good for those who want to vaccinate every last human and don’t care about freedom of choice but what exactly does happen to the “choices” of those who would prefer to wait a bit longer to see how things play out? Can’t you appreciate that “choice” is very much not a factor long term if we carry on down this road?

I don't know where to start with this post to be honest.

@Lostinacloud, it's your decision whether you want to be vaccinated, as is your teens (if you have any).

Giving people freedom of choice regarding this is a good thing. Denying teens the option of a vaccination despite the benefit outweighing the risks is problematic to say the least.

@noblegiraffe

He did say 'some' kids which i expect are the CEV kids

Beware, I think your posts are invisible to some people.

Nah they see them. Then their software glitches, wipes its memory and they start afresh

Virtually zero reports of long covid in children being serious or lasting more than 4 months.

This isn’t true. There are thousands of us. Downplaying it achieves what exactly?

I mean imagine. You’re downplaying illness in children, making “statements” that aren’t true. In public. Feel good?

I mean, if you really want your children to risk some sort of unknown damage to their any organ, including brain and heart, by exposing to covid, go for it. Most of children will be lucky not to get affected. But the truth is, your child can be one of them, the unlucky one. And the adverse effects of vaccine is way fewer than virus itself, and most of the time, treatable. People made to believe that the virus never affect their children, I think it's true for most of the cases, but I just don't want my dc to be the unlucky one.

On the contrary @noblegiraffe, I read the news and asp between the lines of the news. Yesterday Savid Javid said there won’t be vaccine passports. Today, Boris Johnson said, they may prove a useful tool over the winter period so it’s important not to rule anything out.

Boris might as well have said that vaccine passports will be brought in at some point in the future. And now 12-15 year olds have the “choice” to be vaccinated, it will include them too.

Hmm, where have I seen this in action already? - oh yes, literally across the channel in France, where an unvaccinated 12 year old can’t even eat in a restaurant with his vaccinated parents or go to his local football club to play.

That’s exactly the life I want for my children and of course for their “choices” and bodily autonomy decisions to lead to discrimination and segregation.

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2157

Long covid: One in seven children may still have symptoms 15 weeks after infection, data show

Of course, as this is still very early days - particularly with Delta - we don't know yet how many will be affected or how long lasting it will be.

Boris might as well have said that vaccine passports will be brought in at some point in the future.

But he did say that they're bringing them in and now they're not. If he were so super-keen on vaccine passports, as you suspect, applying them to everyone and every social occasion, why did they backtrack on the nightclub decision? That doesn't sound like the actions of a government who are desperate to stop your 12 year old eating in a restaurant, does it?

@BewareTheLibrarians

I'm sorry about your ds
I hope he's able to access good care and things improve for him.

The vaccine is not being recommended for teens because it will benefit wider society (although some may think that's a good enough reason to have it)

Yes it is:

“What we’re saying is we think, on balance, the benefits both at an individual level, and in terms of wider indirect benefits to education, and through that to public health, are in favour.”

@Lostinacloud

Omg what the hell is wrong with people?

No, what the hell is wrong with YOU? How DARE you try to tell other people which approved medical decisions they should make with their own child? Who are you to think that is your right?

You choose to do what you want for your own children (unless they are gillick competent and disagree, of course) and leave other people to their own families.

You talk blindly about choice. You've got that choice. Leave other people the fuck alone to make their own.

@noblegiraffe, 100% there will be vaccine passports in use in England before March next year. They’ve cancelled them for September because there was too much possible dissent.
Don’t worry, as soon as they’ve had another crack at scaring the shit out of everyone through this autumn and winter season, they’ll be reintroduced as the next saviour of the NHS and part of the latest goalpost to meet.

Most kids you know have been fine. My child has not. He’s still having problems directly caused by covid over a year later. He’s not cv, or CEV. Just a bog standard normal healthy kid, before he caught covid.*

Your son is one of the rare ones @BewareTheLibrarians

I’m sorry about that. We have a fair bit of rare stuff going on in our family too. It happens.

Every 12-15 year old doesn’t need to be vaccinated because of the rare chance of what happened to your son though.

That’s all palava is saying.

@DumplingsAndStew I don’t give a shit who decides to vaccinate their own child. But I know that the choice NOT to vaccinate my child will become socially unacceptable and somewhere down the line they will be punished for it. That is what I can see coming and that is why I ask what the hell is wrong with people that they don’t see it.

And the adverse effects of vaccine is way fewer than virus itself

That’s not what the research says - especially for boys.

@Dustyboots

And the adverse effects of vaccine is way fewer than virus itself

That’s not what the research says - especially for boys.

Nope, you're quoting one preprint of which the methods are extremely problematic (was discussed on the other thread) as it relies on VAERS data. I do not expect it to survive peer review in the current format.

Other studies using more robust methods have not found this to be the case

[quote Lostinacloud]@DumplingsAndStew I don’t give a shit who decides to vaccinate their own child. But I know that the choice NOT to vaccinate my child will become socially unacceptable and somewhere down the line they will be punished for it. That is what I can see coming and that is why I ask what the hell is wrong with people that they don’t see it.[/quote]
So you're arguing that because of a hypothetical scenario in which you child may be disadvantaged, you think all teens should be denied the option of having the vaccine?

@Lostinacloud

I don’t give a shit who decides to vaccinate their own child. But I know that the choice NOT to vaccinate my child will become socially unacceptable and somewhere down the line they will be punished for it. That is what I can see coming and that is why I ask what the hell is wrong with people that they don’t see it.

You don't want other people's children to choose to have a vaccine, because you believe your choice for your child to not have that vaccine is more important and/or valid.

Your choice vs other people's choice

I ask what the hell is wrong with someone that they can't see that is essentially what they are saying is wrong in this scenario - that their choice is not outweighing the majority.

[quote Dustyboots]@BewareTheLibrarians - there are thousands of people who have died as a result of the vaccine too. In the UK alone, well over 1000.

An MP (forgotten his name) stood up in parliament recently and read out statistics from the yellow card reports. He was asking why this had all been hidden away.

Children will be adversely affected by these Covid vaccines.[/quote]
@dustyboots

1. the yellow card data hasn't been "hidden away", it's all publicly available. That's why the anti-vaxxers keep quoting it.

2. data from this source cannot be used to prove causality. I've said this umpteen times, but if no one died after being vaccinated that would be very surprising and mean we'd found the cure for death. Using theses raw figures is meaningless - they need to be compared to a comparable cohort of unvaccinated people, to see if rate of death differs between groups.

[quote Lostinacloud]@noblegiraffe, 100% there will be vaccine passports in use in England before March next year. They’ve cancelled them for September because there was too much possible dissent.
Don’t worry, as soon as they’ve had another crack at scaring the shit out of everyone through this autumn and winter season, they’ll be reintroduced as the next saviour of the NHS and part of the latest goalpost to meet.[/quote]
You underestimate the degree to which businesses and Tory MPs dislike the idea of vaccine passports.

Still don't think it will happen.

No, I’m arguing that more people need to change the way they think and look further ahead at the consequences of allowing things to continue on this path. Adults are already discriminated against when they return from abroad, despite having a negative test like their vaccinated travelling companion. They were about to be discriminated against from the end of the month to get into a nightclub. Yes those plans have been scrapped for now but they are still going ahead in Scotland and are kept in ‘reserve’ if needed for England. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that it will be reinstated at some point in the future and now that kids have the ‘choice’ they’ll be included.
I am asking for people to be wary of the background to everything that is taking place so that more people can draw their red line before it goes too far.
For some people that may have been the CMO’s overruling a JVCI decision but if not, then I hope people will think of where their line is and be willing to ensure that “choice” doesn’t become forced or a point of discrimination as that is already happening and imho is about to include our children; as in the case in many countries already.

@Dustyboots

there are thousands of people who have died as a result of the vaccine too. In the UK alone, well over 1000.

To co-opt a well-worn question from certain posters on here, died of of the vaccine, or died after the vaccine?

fullfact.org/online/1102-vaccine-adr-death/