Has anyone else pulled back/ended friendships with unvaccinated friends?

[mowly77]

This feels right to me but I’m not sure how she’s going to take it, & wondered if anyone else had similar experiences? I’m fully vaccinated; but antibody test tells me I’ve had covid in last 6 months. I’m ill a lot - crappy immune system. Really sick this last week, rivers of snot, endless coughing. My DD is at nursery & had milder version first. I get everything she gets. Could be covid again; could not be. Either way I’m bloody ill & self employed so lost loads of money. Fed up of being ill all the time.

Recent friendship with someone & we’ve been working on my allotment together. She’s a bit lonely, single mum, now wants to be my BFF & invited me & DD to her DS birthday (big) party in a few weeks - indoors. She’s cheerfully told me she’s unvaccinated. Didn’t really sink in before. I’ve been in her car; she’s been round for a cuppa a few times.

Now I’m fretting; plus thinking how idiotically selfish she is. I’m going to tell her no more indoor stuff, no birthday party. Outdoor allotment socially distanced is fine.

This winter is going to be a car crash & I don’t have any more truck with it. I know I’m not BU but it still feels like a delicate line.

Further than what?

It's already going on.

I'm genuinely interested to know what you think would have helped us get to a point where restrictions could be lifted, without a covid vaccine?

"the interests of transparency, I will say that I have to deal with an anti vaxxer on a weekly basis. Which will give a wider understanding of why this mentality angers me. He thinks that all vaccines are evil and designed to kill people. He has stopped me from vaccinating our children against the normal childhood illnesses. I pointed out to him that our youngest child went into NICU at birth and is thank god, healthy today because of that intervention"

That's your business I'm afraid, it doesn't mean that you get to project your anger towards others.

"21:35Itsnotover

It's already going on.

I'm genuinely interested to know what you think would have helped us get to a point where restrictions could be lifted, without a covid vaccine?"

No, you are not you just want me to answer pointless questions and deflect your behaviour by going off on tangents.

That's your business I'm afraid, it doesn't mean that you get to project your anger towards others.

🤣🤣 well done for twisting everything I've said.

My thinking processes are reasonable but yours don't seem to be.

So I ask you again. Without the vaccination programme, do you think that the restrictions could have been lifted? If so, how?

"My thinking processes are reasonable but yours don't seem to be"

Really? You called me obtuse a few pages back. I'd say that's unreasonable, not reasonable.

"21:38Itsnotover

That's your business I'm afraid, it doesn't mean that you get to project your anger towards others.

🤣🤣 well done for twisting everything I've said"

I haven't twisted anything, you openly said you were angry.

"So I ask you again. Without the vaccination programme, do you think that the restrictions could have been lifted? If so, how?"

I haven't once said anything about the vaccination programme on here. I'm telling people like you that you have no right to be so rude and entitled about unvaccinated people.

Ok. But you still haven't been able to answer any of my observations.

You asked me to qualify what I said about covid and mutations which I did with a link from WHO.

At least I don't think I did 🤔all this gaslighting you are doing is confusing me.

I think you need to look up the meaning of 'gaslighting'

No Im sure of the definition.

Well, personally I think that people who unreasonably decide to do nothing to stop a virus spreading which has caused chaos all over the world are also 'entitled' but that's just me

@Itsnotover

Do you also feel this strongly about smokers? People who choose to smoke, people who cost the NHS £billions

ash.org.uk/media-and-news/press-releases-media-and-news/true-cost-of-smoking-revealed-in-advance-of-world-no-tobacco-day/

And not only the cost, people who choose to smoke in front of their children are responsible for the long-term health effects on their kids from secondhand smoke, and will very likely influence their children to also grow up to be smokers.

How should we approach the extremely serious affect of smoking on society? We seem to be able to accept that smokers have the right to choose to smoke, with a few caveats such as not on public transport or in enclosed public spaces, even though it costs the NHS billions... why is this any different? How does this vaccination situation differ?

It’s about choice. If you want to stick a cigarette in your mouth, go ahead. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, don’t. It’s fundamentally about having the freedom to choose. And not go around calling people who choose to smoke (or eat crap, or whatever they choose to do) or not get vaccinated ‘entitled’. Life is not black and white like that... people don’t fit so neatly into good and bad boxes in the real world...

You are probably more dangerous than she is. You are vaccinated, you can get covid (possibly without symptoms) and spread it on.

You say whatever your child gets you catch. The likelihood is you are more likely to get I'll from a child attending school or nursery. Bugs run rampant in those settings.

If you use the mentality you could get ill from an unvaccinated person therefore break the friendship, then surely that same mentality would be to pull your child out of nursery/school.

I am vaccinated, I would not break friendships without someone that isn't.
I respect them to choose what gets put in their body as I would expect my friends to respect my decision.

@Peteycat

Oldfestivalgoer

Firstly, why the silly face?

It's called an emoji or emoticon. It's used to convey tone, which can be difficult to do in plain text.

Secondly, no it's nonsense. She doesn't 'begrudge' people, how very good of her. Why is it 'precisely' why everyone who can, should? On what basis? Because some have had a reaction? It makes no sense.

Because there are people who can't be vaccinated or whose immune systems won't respond effectively to a vaccine. This is 'precisely' why herd immunity matters, to curb the spread of infectious disease, and why those who can be vaccinated, but choose not to, have a responsibility to those who can't.

If there had been loads of anti-vaxxers around when smallpox, diphtheria and polio vaccines were introduced, these would still be endemic in the uk and killing or paralysing many thousands of children every year.

I hope that helped you to understand the previous post. As I say, I thought it was perfectly clear in itself, but happy to help.

"I hope that helped you to understand the previous post. As I say, I thought it was perfectly clear in itself, but happy to help"

No, you just assume that people have a responsibility that doesn't exist. People can do what they want. It's not up to you or anyone else to police their medical choices.

No, you just assume that people have a responsibility that doesn't exist. People can do what they want. It's not up to you or anyone else to police their medical choices

^ This

It would be REALLY NICE if people did all choose to get vaccinated, but they do not have a responsibility.

@Blackbird2020

Thank you. Honestly it can get exhausting sometimes reminding people that we have rights and just to remind them to be kinder and stop judging.

I think it’s so easy to get caught up with the simplicity of the situation and not take a step back and consider all other perspectives, because it’s so binary: you’re either vaccinated or you’re not. It’s so classically tribal and speaks to deep, and understandable, human emotions.

@Peteycat

"I hope that helped you to understand the previous post. As I say, I thought it was perfectly clear in itself, but happy to help"

No, you just assume that people have a responsibility that doesn't exist. People can do what they want. It's not up to you or anyone else to police their medical choices.

You're confusing moral and ethical and social responsibility with legal obligation.

You're right that no one is legally obliged to do their part to help society as a whole and the most vulnerable within it.

Moral responsibility is a different thing. And no one can make you feel it or act upon it. Luckily, most people have an innate sense of it.

"Moral responsibility is a different thing. And no one can make you feel it or act upon it. Luckily, most people have an innate sense of it.+"

No, its just a social construct that some have made up and cling onto.

Ok then. If you don't believe that anyone has morals or ethics or any kind of essential duty of care towards other human beings, then I not only don't want to carry on this discussion with you, but also find it pretty distressing that people who think like you exist.

Adios

Moral responsibility is actually a philosophical point of debate and has many approaches:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_responsibility

This is getting a bit deep for Tuesday night Mumsnet browsing