Will there be another lockdown

[Doublethecars]

In November time?

@GoldenOmber of course it is a massively complex issue; the problem with a great number of people on this thread is that they don’t understand that it is. And some of them, as evidenced also on this thread, really don’t care. So what solutions do you think are going to work from here on in?

the problem with a great number of people on this thread is that they don’t understand that it is

Oh, I think they do, I just think they weigh the harms of some of those complexities differently to you.

So what solutions do you think are going to work from here on in?

To what problem? Current English case loads? Probably to do what they’re already doing, but with added funding increases for the NHS so that it doesn’t spend every single winter stretched even in non-pandemic times.

I don’t think bringing back masks and WFH in England, or a short 2-week lockdown, would work to make much if anything of an impact on cases. A longer lockdown would; but then you’d be pushing covid waves and RSV and flu etc. all into the winter, which would end up being worse in the longer term.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Curious to know how those against lockdowns feel about a reintroduction of face masks, social distancing and isolations if it helps avoid a full total prolonged lockdown? Would you support that?

Well first of all, the premise here is wrong. Lockdown isn't something that must flow from certain actions or scenarios. It's a choice. Particularly given that we have a populist government, it isn't something that's going to happen without support and pressure from enough of the public. You also don't seem to have factored in that people don't have to and sometimes can't comply with the measures you mention and there would still be other competing pressures. So for example if someone's going to lose their job if they isolate, they won't do it.

That being said, I'll play. Never been that bothered about masks, I still wear one in the supermarket anyway. Isolations, depends who would be isolating, for how long and whether there would be support. I will not accept or comply with laws relating to social distancing again, and will see loved ones in mine and their homes as desired.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Curious to know how those against lockdowns feel about a reintroduction of face masks, social distancing and isolations if it helps avoid a full total prolonged lockdown? Would you support that?

I think it depends with social distancing/isolations as to the impact it will have (if that makes sense).

Isolations in a household makes sense, shutting down a year group or isolating someone because they have pinged due to walking by someone in a supermarket doesnt.

Its all for me about balance - masks are an easy one (though I am for communal areas in school rather than classrooms), and the other two need to be sensible as to what impacts on Covid without impacting on other things such as education.

Sensible measures that allow life to go on whilst managing Covid should be the approach.

My concern is having removed them how easy it is to reintroduce.

That said I am surprised you need to ask - I thought that was perfectly clear from a lot of posters

@Thewiseoneincognito

Curious to know how those against lockdowns feel about a reintroduction of face masks, social distancing and isolations if it helps avoid a full total prolonged lockdown? Would you support that?

That’s what we did in previous lockdowns and here we are (almost) again. Something is clearly very wrong.

I don’t think those lunch with Mabel, Netflix posts do show that end as getting it’s a complex issue

Or that other people who they would say think of Afghanistan to are in terrible positions like the healthcare PTSD in pp too.

Or if they do it’s not coming across.

It’s always been a balance of harms / allocation of scarce resources - which is complex

Quartz oh right yes agree for zero Covid extreme not sure about other end though

@Thewiseoneincognito

Curious to know how those against lockdowns feel about a reintroduction of face masks, social distancing and isolations if it helps avoid a full total prolonged lockdown? Would you support that?

Where has this actually worked though? I don’t believe any of these non-pharmaceutical methods beyond good ventilation have actually worked in the real world.

I think the heavier restrictions short of lockdown probably worked to slow the spread earlier this year and last autumn. Which made a lot of sense when the argument is “avoid getting covid now because you’ll be vaccinated soon”; less so when the argument is “avoid getting covid now, get it later instead.”

Obviously that’s a different picture if the health service is facing collapse, but thankfully we aren’t there.

@irresistibleoverwhelm

Pubs, “hospitality” and hairdressers were all mentioned on this thread! That’s why I referred to them.

If you really want to get outside your bubble, try taking to some NHS staff instead about what they think of the anti-lockdown discourse. Two of my closest friends are now off seriously unwell with complex PTSD after either running (one of them) or nursing on a high-dependency Covid ward during the last year. I can guarantee you your Ocado quips wouldn’t be impressing them.

But hey, at least they're not in a war zone are they?

I assume that's what you told them?

@southeastdweller I agree something is clearly wrong and I think the elephant in the room is the fact that our freedoms and lifestyle are not compatible with Covid particularly if we wish to have minimal cases and risk without modifying our behaviour.

My concern is what the situation looks like 2 or 3 years down the line after more people have been infected more than once. What the vaccination strategy will be, we have to figure out how long immunity lasts and how to manage boosters. We’re expecting to do all of that whilst carrying on as if everything is fine.

I’m not so sure how we’ll be able to do this safely? I also appreciate the alternative is equally as bad with lockdowns and social impacts, so which is the lesser evil?

@NannyAndJohn

I'd think it'd be quite the opposite - the threat of another Lockdown would surely entice the vaccine-shy to go out and get it done

Hopefully this will include @Thewiseoneincognito, the vaccine-shy poster whose predictions for 2021 you have posted in another thread.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58474536

The media are ridiculous, the fear factor the create / lie about is disgraceful

maybe it depends what you mean by "plan"

a definite plan?

a vague contingency plan?

a plan for a 1 in 100,000 chance emergency?

[quote BlueBlancmange]@NannyAndJohn

I'd think it'd be quite the opposite - the threat of another Lockdown would surely entice the vaccine-shy to go out and get it done

Hopefully this will include @Thewiseoneincognito, the vaccine-shy poster whose predictions for 2021 you have posted in another thread.[/quote]
Hun, read the previous page. 😏

@JesusIsAnyNameFree Which doesn't mean let it rip and kill anyone vulnerable enough to get taken out by out.

Lockdowns wreck havoc on the mental and physical health of young people. We are in the process of creating a dumbed down next generation that will suffer unprecedented mental health issues and experience unpredictable negative outcomes in terms of their childhood development for what? To protect the weak and the old. It's laughably stupid and short sighted. Way to weaken an economy and population long-term. I say this as a super compiler who hasn't broken one lockdown rule at any point and who's fully vaccinated.

I will not vaccinate my 12+ daughters as I have experienced horrendous side effect with my monthly cycle plus and I will not isolate my family again in any future lockdown.

@notgotthehelp

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58474536

The media are ridiculous, the fear factor the create / lie about is disgraceful

You think that was allowed to go to press on a whim? That was a dipping of the toes to test the waters. No doubt some analyst is sat reading MN threads like this (👋🏼 Hi, pop back in October) to gauge the reaction, possibly even posting too 🧐🤫

You think that was allowed to go to press on a whim?

It was ‘a SAGE source’ who gave the story to the papers. So could be government testing the waters, could be someone on SAGE/one of the groups that feed into SAGE off on their own.

I find it plausible that they were testing it out - as I said I think polls reflect sometimes what you think you should say

I’m not so sure how we’ll be able to do this safely? I also appreciate the alternative is equally as bad with lockdowns and social impacts, so which is the lesser evil?

And that is what needs to be weighed up when decision are made. But also with the end goal central to all of this.

And for us it isnt letting it rip (never was), zero covid (never was) or actually limiting the impact on the public (in terms of long covid or death) however much there is an argument that should be the central tenet of it all. Ours is protecting the NHS - and it is the infrastructure not the staff or the patients the infrastructure.

So it will be about managing our way through in order to ensure the NHS can survive

The government has denied planning an October lockdown in England, after a newspaper report said the opposite.
The i newspaper said plans had been drawn up to extend the school half-term holiday, if the number of hospitalisations continue at the current level.
The i said a full lockdown was unlikely - but the government could introduce some rules as part of a "firebreak".

In the i News though? I admit I’ve not heard much about it

That’s what we did in previous lockdowns and here we are (almost) again. Something is clearly very wrong.

Yes, what’s wrong is that we’re in a pandemic. There is no way to make it go away, only mitigate the effects. I think you have drastically misunderstood what the restrictions and lockdowns were for.

Fuck off lockdown. You stole enough of my life already. I'm not going back- make me a criminal if you have to

It clearly doesn't work. And if people don't want to get vaccinated don't lock me up to protect them

If the hospitals are overwhelmed then yes. It doesn’t matter if there in no money or no appetite for it, we will have to have one.

@MarshaBradyo remember when the papers said schools would close, BJ said no they won’t, opened for a day then shut again?

Like I said, that story was not a maverick move it was intentional. They know what is potentially heading our way and are now figuring out how to get the public back onboard.

What do you mean “it doesn’t work”? They’ve always got numbers down to a manageable level for the NHS to cope with without people dying on the streets through lack of beds. Vaccinated people can need hospital treatment. The vaccines are brilliant but not perfect.
Lockdowns don’t eliminate covid but they do put the brakes on the acute pressure on hospitals.