Will there be another lockdown

[Doublethecars]

In November time?

'What we should all really be spending our collective time on is pressuring the government to build a robust health system that can actually support winter respiratory disease season and the ever growing and ageing population.'

^^^ This 100%

@JesusIsAnyNameFree

I really don't care what you say regarding the whole not caring if strangers die. After a year and a half of this discussion, it's clear that that is what it boils down to. You don't fear for you or someone you love in the way people with vulnerable loved ones do, so why should you have to skip family brunch every Sunday or drinks with the girls?🤷‍♀️

Of course I don't care about strangers dying. I never cared before the pandemic so why should I care now?

Pubs, “hospitality” and hairdressers were all mentioned on this thread! That’s why I referred to them.

If you really want to get outside your bubble, try taking to some NHS staff instead about what they think of the anti-lockdown discourse. Two of my closest friends are now off seriously unwell with complex PTSD after either running (one of them) or nursing on a high-dependency Covid ward during the last year. I can guarantee you your Ocado quips wouldn’t be impressing them.

@irresistibleoverwhelm

To be honest two weeks after the pictures coming from Afghanistan, reading stuff here complaining about lockdowns and mask wearing as not being able to go to pubs and the hairdresser is eye-popping. Yes lockdown is shit but a lot of people honestly need a little perspective.

So because we don’t live in a fucking warzone, it’s okay to minimise the impact of lockdowns?

Excess deaths are actually noticeable in younger adults too, and those are not from COVID. Lives forever lost or altered because we’ve panicked and lost our collective shit.

Also, lives lost because people couldn’t get timely cancer diagnoses and treatment.

This is a shame upon all of us. We have all the tools we need to get back to normal.

@southeastdweller

Not even when your actions might have been a contributing factor?

@irresistibleoverwhelm

Pubs, “hospitality” and hairdressers were all mentioned on this thread! That’s why I referred to them.

If you really want to get outside your bubble, try taking to some NHS staff instead about what they think of the anti-lockdown discourse. Two of my closest friends are now off seriously unwell with complex PTSD after either running (one of them) or nursing on a high-dependency Covid ward during the last year. I can guarantee you your Ocado quips wouldn’t be impressing them.

NHS staff are not a monolithic bloc though, and by no means do they all support further lockdowns. Speaking of getting outside one's bubble.

[quote JesusIsAnyNameFree]@southeastdweller

Not even when your actions might have been a contributing factor?[/quote]
I don't have time for living my life according to what 'might be' so maybe the answer for you is no.

@southeastdweller

Gross.

@irresistibleoverwhelm

Pubs, “hospitality” and hairdressers were all mentioned on this thread! That’s why I referred to them.

If you really want to get outside your bubble, try taking to some NHS staff instead about what they think of the anti-lockdown discourse. Two of my closest friends are now off seriously unwell with complex PTSD after either running (one of them) or nursing on a high-dependency Covid ward during the last year. I can guarantee you your Ocado quips wouldn’t be impressing them.

I doubt at least it’s not Afghanistan would either tbf.

There are other extremes from lockdown too, which seem to be easily minimised by some.

Hmmm, I thought this was our irreversible path to Freedom?

@Thewiseoneincognito it might have been if more people had taken up the vaccine. Did you get yours in the end?

@notgotthehelp second one is in October thanks.

But from what I can see the issue isn’t only unvaccinated people is it?

Yes, I think so.

Or wait for another house? Is that an option.

@Thewiseoneincognito all sniping aside that's amazing! Thank you. Fingers crossed more people decide to get theirs too.

If you really want to get outside your bubble, try taking to some NHS staff instead

I spent many months of this pandemic working with NHS staff on pandemic response planning, including on hospital capacity and staffing issues. I will not go into detail but it was a very direct view on the situation and it was awful.

But clearly, the only things I could possibly care about is drinks with the girls, there can be no other reason anyone would disagree with you.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Hmmm, I thought this was our irreversible path to Freedom?

The problem is there is no freedom and there never will be. And both the pro and anti lockdowners I think struggle with that concept - that Covid is here and isnt going anywhere.

I am not anti lockdown - its just the way we do it simply suppresses (and I have my concerns that with Delta and potentially Mu variants that it would even do that). A lockdown that eradicates (such as China/New Zealand) would never be possible here due to socio economic, political and geographical factors.

I think most of us are aware that Covid is still here and that winter is going to be tough. But I think it needs questioning whether the gains any lockdown will bring is worth the cost. And whether those gains in the long term are going to even be gains. And when would you do it - it is painfully clear from previous attempts that going by tiers had issues, going en masse has issues. I am more for a local approach but am also aware that unlike other bigger countries are local lines are blurred.

Psychologically lockdowns help because they make us feel as if we can do something as if we are fighting it.

A system of measures (masks, SD, isolations changing) in areas I think should be in place. The fact that even households shouldnt isolate is insane. Those measures throughout winter is sensible and I do think it was a mistake to remove as I am not sure how easy they will be to bring back.

Because there is a juxtaposition I think between the polls that have us all saying we want and welcome restrictions and what you see out in public where pretty much everyone has abandoned restrictions. Polls I think I would be wary of following because I think they are what people think they should be saying (in the same way that we say we drink under 5 units and exercise 4 times a week) and the reality of what we do

@GoldenOmber

If you really want to get outside your bubble, try taking to some NHS staff instead

I spent many months of this pandemic working with NHS staff on pandemic response planning, including on hospital capacity and staffing issues. I will not go into detail but it was a very direct view on the situation and it was awful.

But clearly, the only things I could possibly care about is drinks with the girls, there can be no other reason anyone would disagree with you.

It wasn’t me who said drinks with the girls - you’re getting posters mixed up - but there’s certainly a fair amount of the U.K. population who think this.

Ah, apologies, you were hairdressers rather than drinks.

I agree polls don’t mean much if self selecting - in the same way protests aren’t

But I don’t agree that - And both the pro and anti lockdowners I think struggle with that concept - that Covid is here and isnt going anywhere.

I think those who don’t want another lockdown are aware of this usually.

No, I was referring to a post by someone else earlier in the thread about going to the hairdresser.

What’s your solution then, @GoldenOmber? Tell us some of the detail about how you have been advising the NHS on pandemic strategy without lockdowns or restrictions? We’re perfectly capable of understanding the fine detail, so if you could back it up with some links to the relevant risk models that would be good.

@MarshaBradyo

I agree polls don’t mean much if self selecting - in the same way protests aren’t

But I don’t agree that - And both the pro and anti lockdowners I think struggle with that concept - that Covid is here and isnt going anywhere.

I think those who don’t want another lockdown are aware of this usually.

I wasnt referring to those (myself included) that dont want another lockdown - more the real anti lockdown/anti vaxxers. More the extreme left and right of the scale rather than those of us (the majority) who fall in the middle.

Curious to know how those against lockdowns feel about a reintroduction of face masks, social distancing and isolations if it helps avoid a full total prolonged lockdown? Would you support that?

@Thewiseoneincognito yes absolutely

Tell us some of the detail about how you have been advising the NHS on pandemic strategy without lockdowns or restrictions?

I haven’t been doing that, and never claimed I was doing that. There were a ton of people across the public sector working on pandemic response last year; I was part of that effort.

I think lockdowns and restrictions were warranted in spring 2020 and over the last winter, as the least worst option. Not because they’re harmless, but because the alternative would have been worse. I don’t think they would be warranted now because I don’t think the alternative would outweigh those harms.

Perhaps it would help, just a teensy tiny little bit, if we could move past the idea that anyone who disagrees with you about a massively complex issue with a huge bunch of tradeoffs just doesn’t care?