Is it selfish to travel abroad at the moment?

[RockingMyFiftiesNot]

I expect the responses will be very mixed with responses from 'yes selfish' to 'no, go', and some in between - but I am torn so will consider all perspectives.

DH and I pondering seeking some winter sun in a country that's currently on the amber list. Mentioned to some friends who were horrified and said it was extremely selfish to travel abroad, and 'just because you can doesn't mean you should'.

We will fly, stay in hotels and use restaurants, outside seating where possible. We will hire a car, and go sightseeing / walking outside as much as possible.

We've looked into the risks (obviously concerned about our own safety as well as being potential carriers to/from holiday country.)

Risks areas I see are:

• airports - but taking precautions such as masks, distancing, hand washing/sanitising after touching things, don't see the risk as being any greater than a supermarket
• the flight - this is what is worrying me most but I understand the filtration systems to be effective, along with mask wearing, which should reduce the risk. Tho I am sure if you are sat near someone who is positive, you are quite vulnerable
• bars and restaurants - will be outside as much as possible which is lower risk than being inside in the uk
• everyone on the outbound flight will either be double jabbed or have taken a test before departure. Appreciate that isn't going to mean that everyone on the plane is negative but risk is reduced.
• everyone on the return flight will have been tested 3 days before the flight. Same comment as above.

We have said we will isolate at home fully until we've done the test after we return, and even if negative will avoid mixing for a further week or so and do our own tests regularly.

Appreciate we may need to isolate at our own cost on return if the country turns red while we are out there and cover other costs not included in insurance. If it looked like the country we decide on is heading in that direction before we leave, we'd cut our losses and not go.

I'm leaning towards 'we have to learn to live with it', but equally don't to be irresponsible / selfish.

Any points I haven't thought of to help weigh it up?

Nope.
What's selfish is what's been selfish all the way through. Refusing to wear masks, refusing to distance, refusing to be vaccinated.
Foreign travel right now is highly controlled, and probably a damn sight safer than home travel. You're putting money into an industry that's on its knees. Nothing selfish about that!

It's not selfish to support the travel industry.
Providing you are responsible- wear masks, test etc than I don't think it's selfish at all.

Do it. We’ve just come back from two weeks in Greece and it was bloody brilliant. A welcome relief from the misery in the UK.

Yes, it’s very selfish to leave the house, have fun or do anything at all. You could be ridden with disease! Stay in your spare bedroom forever.
Have fun! 😎

Where I live half of new covid cases are related to people returning from abroad, picked up on the day 1 and 7 tests. So these people likely caught covid before or whilst away and have been spreading it merrily. However I guess everyone is doing that anyway whether they leave the country or not. And of course, returning travellers are more likely to be tested.

No more selfish than going to a restaurant, cinema or theatre here.

Not selfish at all, I suspect your friends are merely jealous. Boyfriend and I are going to Portugal next weekend and I'm so selfish that I also went away to Spain in August! If you can and want to then do it. We all need a bleeding holiday

No

I’ve had two holidays this year.

Holiday 1. Newquay. Packed to the rafters, restaurants and bars couldn’t cope. Graffiti saying “emmets go home” in several places. No requirement to jabbed or tested, and same going home. Cases there going through the roof, and low hospital capacity.

Holiday 2. Lanzarote. The locals want us here, all are saying they are pleased to see us. The local government even gives free insurance cover to tourists to try and attract them. Cases very low. Had to be double jabbed or tested to come, and tested at least twice to go home.

You tell he which one was the most “selfish”

Go. We didn't go abroad this year because we needed to see my family (in Scotland) after not seeing them for 2 years but we did have a fab UK holiday in May half term and it was so good to be somewhere different. Thinking about booking for next year and wondering about going abroad, suspect this winter will be hard as we stress test the vaccines so we'll need something to look forward to.

I think flying for any non-essential purposes is becoming increasingly difficult to defend from an environmental perspective... I see less of a problem with international travel during the pandemic, assuming compliance with testing, isolating where necessary, etc.

Nope not selfish at all.

Do it. We just got back from Greece and if I had the annual leave I’d go away again. It all felt very very safe, every restaurant we went to was outside anyway as standard and the locals were so grateful for us being there.

Not selfish at all. You're considering the conditions of travel and the destination and abiding by those set.

The minority who think we should all virtuously sit at home and never do anything sociable or fun again are very selfish.

Do it

I’ve been twice it was fabulous

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

I think flying for any non-essential purposes is becoming increasingly difficult to defend from an environmental perspective... I see less of a problem with international travel during the pandemic, assuming compliance with testing, isolating where necessary, etc.

Fair comment re the environmental impact, but that's a debate for a different thread, along with environmental vs economic impact.

Unless you’re travelling to a place where Covid levels are significantly higher in the community than they are in the UK, there’s no greater likelihood that you’ll catch Covid abroad and bring it back with you than there is you’d catch it on a UK staycation or a visit to your local pub. Just behave as you would if you did either of those things and enjoy yourselves.

I'm travelling for work but probably wouldn't for holidays and I certainly wouldn't risk anywhere that was in danger of turning red. Of course things could be a lot different by winter sun holiday time.

In terms of your risk areas

• airports - distancing hasn't been a problem except in passport control queue (Manchester Airport). However most people were wearing masks and had to have a negative test to travel back to the UK. Plenty of hand sanitiser around too.

• the flight - It's been quite quiet on the ones i've been on and again everyone including children have had to wear masks. Crew reminding people to wear them properly too.

• bars and restaurants - We only eat outside or have a hotel room picnic.

Having said that we were pinged whilst abroad from a close contact that I assume was on the return flight from a previous trip (don't have the app). Both of us are double vaccinated so no need to isolate.

There's a lot off paperwork but so long as you're organised it's ok.

I used Nationwide Pathology for our Day 2 tests and they were delivered the next day. Sent them off and results were back within 24hrs. We also took antigen test with us on the last trip. I used C19testing for those as it was a lot easier than trying to find a clinic abroad. Certificate for flying home were back within 3 hours.

@TweedePrik

Where I live half of new covid cases are related to people returning from abroad, picked up on the day 1 and 7 tests. So these people likely caught covid before or whilst away and have been spreading it merrily. However I guess everyone is doing that anyway whether they leave the country or not. And of course, returning travellers are more likely to be tested.

And you know this how??

Not selfish at all - go and enjoy. I've been abroad three times since the pandemic started and planning on going again next month. The travel industry needs the support.

No. Life has to continue now. Covid is not going away.

Absolutely not

Not selfish to travel. It’s just more bother than it was pre Covid such that people are self limiting going abroad. Also a lot I think don’t want to admit any fear of travel due to Covid so they unfairly criticise those who do travel.

No it's not selfish at all. You are supporting the travel industry. I wish we went but we were waiting for dd1 to be double vaccinated. I haven't ruled out half term yet but will wait and see.

Not selfish as such re the virus but I’m a bit surprised no one has mentioned climate impact of flights.. amongst my friends we are a bit conscious of this now? I’m not saying don’t travel etc but for non essential travel it does play a part in our choices now, more & more. My friend recently flew and found the flight very empty & she felt guilty for the trip! Just another perspective. I think long term the airlines will struggle due to increase in consumer consciousness re carbon emissions, more so than the virus perhaps. I don’t expect them to really bounce back to the days of £5 flights now! Xo

I don't think it's selfish at all, no more so than the hordes packing out Devon beaches this summer. If it wasn't for all the faffing with testing and having kids not yet vaccinated and being tied to school holidays, we would have gone too. Go and enjoy OP.