Is it selfish to travel abroad at the moment?

[RockingMyFiftiesNot]

I expect the responses will be very mixed with responses from 'yes selfish' to 'no, go', and some in between - but I am torn so will consider all perspectives.

DH and I pondering seeking some winter sun in a country that's currently on the amber list. Mentioned to some friends who were horrified and said it was extremely selfish to travel abroad, and 'just because you can doesn't mean you should'.

We will fly, stay in hotels and use restaurants, outside seating where possible. We will hire a car, and go sightseeing / walking outside as much as possible.

We've looked into the risks (obviously concerned about our own safety as well as being potential carriers to/from holiday country.)

Risks areas I see are:

• airports - but taking precautions such as masks, distancing, hand washing/sanitising after touching things, don't see the risk as being any greater than a supermarket
• the flight - this is what is worrying me most but I understand the filtration systems to be effective, along with mask wearing, which should reduce the risk. Tho I am sure if you are sat near someone who is positive, you are quite vulnerable
• bars and restaurants - will be outside as much as possible which is lower risk than being inside in the uk
• everyone on the outbound flight will either be double jabbed or have taken a test before departure. Appreciate that isn't going to mean that everyone on the plane is negative but risk is reduced.
• everyone on the return flight will have been tested 3 days before the flight. Same comment as above.

We have said we will isolate at home fully until we've done the test after we return, and even if negative will avoid mixing for a further week or so and do our own tests regularly.

Appreciate we may need to isolate at our own cost on return if the country turns red while we are out there and cover other costs not included in insurance. If it looked like the country we decide on is heading in that direction before we leave, we'd cut our losses and not go.

I'm leaning towards 'we have to learn to live with it', but equally don't to be irresponsible / selfish.

Any points I haven't thought of to help weigh it up?

One could argue that any non-essential travel is selfish full stop.

@NannyAndJohn

One could argue that any non-essential travel is selfish full stop.

‘One’ could. Mainly just you though.

@sjxoxo

Not selfish as such re the virus but I’m a bit surprised no one has mentioned climate impact of flights.. amongst my friends we are a bit conscious of this now? I’m not saying don’t travel etc but for non essential travel it does play a part in our choices now, more & more. My friend recently flew and found the flight very empty & she felt guilty for the trip! Just another perspective. I think long term the airlines will struggle due to increase in consumer consciousness re carbon emissions, more so than the virus perhaps. I don’t expect them to really bounce back to the days of £5 flights now! Xo

Yep.

I'd hoped that Covid would have made people realise that foreign travel just isn't sustainable in the face of climate change. But once again, their heads are in the sand.

@NannyAndJohn

One could argue that any non-essential travel is selfish full stop.

One could argue that the earth is flat too.

If you wanted.

@NannyAndJohn have you done plenty of travel in the past before deciding that young people now shouldn’t have that privilege?

I don’t expect them to really bounce back to the days of £5 flights now

I’ve just booked a flight to Valencia to see my mum (who lives there) for £14.99 . £19.99 return.

@NannyAndJohn

One could argue that any non-essential travel is selfish full stop.

One would be utterly ridiculous to do so.

Not selfish. I'm going away in the UK next week and while I love a UK holiday I'm wishing I was going abroad! Were thinking of Greece next year and the US the following year, especially if we get bad weather here!

@sjxoxo

Not selfish as such re the virus but I’m a bit surprised no one has mentioned climate impact of flights.. amongst my friends we are a bit conscious of this now? I’m not saying don’t travel etc but for non essential travel it does play a part in our choices now, more & more. My friend recently flew and found the flight very empty & she felt guilty for the trip! Just another perspective. I think long term the airlines will struggle due to increase in consumer consciousness re carbon emissions, more so than the virus perhaps. I don’t expect them to really bounce back to the days of £5 flights now! Xo

Your friend still flew despite 'feeling guilty' though, didn't she?

And Ryanair have had several sales offering seats for £5, or close. I got a flight for £9 back in June.

People will talk about being 'concerned' about pollution, but if they want to fly, they will fly. It's not like the damage caused by flying is new news.

In any case, that's a different argument.

My god nanny

As if your covid fear posts aremt bad enough

That comment was just embarrassing

[quote FfrothiCoffi]@NannyAndJohn have you done plenty of travel in the past before deciding that young people now shouldn’t have that privilege?[/quote]
Yes, but that was before:

1. Covid.
2. We realised just how devastating climate change is going to be.

The world has always adapted to growing threats. This is nothing new.

We have known how devastating climate change is going to be for years and years. Sounds like you just conveniently ignored it until you were done with your travelling.

Yes, but that was before:

1) Covid.
2) We realised just how devastating climate change is going to be.

The world has always adapted to growing threats. This is nothing new.

As long as you've done it that's alright @NannyAndJohn. Talk about 'I'm alright Jack'.

@NannyAndJohn

Except two months ago, you were saying foreign travel (despite you having travelled extensively and always had two foreign holidays a year) wasn't worth the risk of catching Covid.

It's only been the last couple of weeks you've turned into Greta isn't it?

You big old winder-upper you.

NO! I wish we'd gone away in the summer. We booked but had to cancel for non-covid reasons. I'm madly jealous of anyone who got away from the grey of the UK. I'm planning on going to Greece at October half term.

[quote Geamhradh]@NannyAndJohn

Except two months ago, you were saying foreign travel (despite you having travelled extensively and always had two foreign holidays a year) wasn't worth the risk of catching Covid.

It's only been the last couple of weeks you've turned into Greta isn't it?

You big old winder-upper you.[/quote]
The Covid crisis has opened my eyes to the horrors of climate change.

I'm sure I'm far from alone here.

@NannyAndJohn you’re hilarious! You’ve had your fun, now your sole aim in life is to prevent anyone else from having any!

The pandemic consequences is now all about whether we keep a head of variants or not.

The more virus circulating, the higher the chance of a new variant. The more people travelling, the higher the chance of a new variant spreading.

So yes, in absolute sense, a non-needed travel is selfish in the sense that benefits the traveller and have athe potential to affect the whole community negatively.

There are many reason why this rationale can be changed, by personal circumstances. But helping the travel industry, in my opinion, seems like a very-short term benefit compared with the potential longe term cost of continuous spread.

[quote Geamhradh]@NannyAndJohn

Except two months ago, you were saying foreign travel (despite you having travelled extensively and always had two foreign holidays a year) wasn't worth the risk of catching Covid.

It's only been the last couple of weeks you've turned into Greta isn't it?

You big old winder-upper you.[/quote]
She's only a winder upper if we allow her to wind us up.

She's only a winder upper if we allow her to wind us up

She just amuses me. Best thing to do is to assume she’s a parody account. Makes it funny.

But helping the travel industry, in my opinion, seems like a very-short term benefit compared with the potential longe term cost of continuous spread.

I'm sure the people like my cousin who've lost their jobs in the travel industry won't agree with you.

So yes, in absolute sense, a non-needed travel is selfish in the sense that benefits the traveller and have athe potential to affect the whole community negatively.

Where do you want to draw the line at that though?

Any human interaction has the potential to spread the virus, including the dreaded 'variants'. Unless you lock yourself up for 'non needed' activities, then you too are indulging in 'selfish' behaviour which benefits you but has the potential to affect the whole community negatively.

There are many reason why this rationale can be changed, by personal circumstances. But helping the travel industry, in my opinion, seems like a very-short term benefit compared with the potential longe term cost of continuous spread.

In which case obviously you'll be minimising all travel outside of the home.

Personally, I'm very happy to support an industry which has suffered massively over the past 19 months.

Think of the flight as risky and treat it that way. Yes air is filtered, but it’s not a direct flow from you to the filter and back again, it could come from the person at the back or the front and pass over you before it gets filtered. You need an FFP2 or FFP3 mask. But taking it off to eat/drink increases the risk but that’s something you’ll be happy with to go abroad.

@Lua

The pandemic consequences is now all about whether we keep a head of variants or not.

The more virus circulating, the higher the chance of a new variant. The more people travelling, the higher the chance of a new variant spreading.

So yes, in absolute sense, a non-needed travel is selfish in the sense that benefits the traveller and have athe potential to affect the whole community negatively.

There are many reason why this rationale can be changed, by personal circumstances. But helping the travel industry, in my opinion, seems like a very-short term benefit compared with the potential longe term cost of continuous spread.

Bingo.

Selfish? No I do not think you are. The rules are ridiculous and you cam get Covid here or abroad just the same. It is not like there is not COVID outside the U.K.