Is it selfish to travel abroad at the moment?

[RockingMyFiftiesNot]

I expect the responses will be very mixed with responses from 'yes selfish' to 'no, go', and some in between - but I am torn so will consider all perspectives.

DH and I pondering seeking some winter sun in a country that's currently on the amber list. Mentioned to some friends who were horrified and said it was extremely selfish to travel abroad, and 'just because you can doesn't mean you should'.

We will fly, stay in hotels and use restaurants, outside seating where possible. We will hire a car, and go sightseeing / walking outside as much as possible.

We've looked into the risks (obviously concerned about our own safety as well as being potential carriers to/from holiday country.)

Risks areas I see are:

• airports - but taking precautions such as masks, distancing, hand washing/sanitising after touching things, don't see the risk as being any greater than a supermarket
• the flight - this is what is worrying me most but I understand the filtration systems to be effective, along with mask wearing, which should reduce the risk. Tho I am sure if you are sat near someone who is positive, you are quite vulnerable
• bars and restaurants - will be outside as much as possible which is lower risk than being inside in the uk
• everyone on the outbound flight will either be double jabbed or have taken a test before departure. Appreciate that isn't going to mean that everyone on the plane is negative but risk is reduced.
• everyone on the return flight will have been tested 3 days before the flight. Same comment as above.

We have said we will isolate at home fully until we've done the test after we return, and even if negative will avoid mixing for a further week or so and do our own tests regularly.

Appreciate we may need to isolate at our own cost on return if the country turns red while we are out there and cover other costs not included in insurance. If it looked like the country we decide on is heading in that direction before we leave, we'd cut our losses and not go.

I'm leaning towards 'we have to learn to live with it', but equally don't to be irresponsible / selfish.

Any points I haven't thought of to help weigh it up?

Why is selfish going abroad when international travel is so controlled, vaccines and/or test required to go and come back, but you can go here in the UK to a crammed pub and not one single person wear a mask?all open as usual and sometimes crowded with no control of anything. What's the point of not going abroad when there are no restrictions here anymore?

@WhatHaveIFound thank you, very useful information and appreciate tried and tested test info

I suppose in some very specific circumstances it would be. Like if you wanted to travel to a poorer country where the health system was already near collapse and the bit you were heading for had very low covid rates and no vaccines, that wouldn't be great. But just travelling in general, no.

I bet if you asked your friends when it wouldn't be selfish, they would not have a specific answer beyond a vague "when things are a bit better", and at some point they'll be travelling themselves again at a time when covid is still around.

@TweedePrik

Where I live half of new covid cases are related to people returning from abroad, picked up on the day 1 and 7 tests. So these people likely caught covid before or whilst away and have been spreading it merrily. However I guess everyone is doing that anyway whether they leave the country or not. And of course, returning travellers are more likely to be tested.

Day 1 and day 7 tests?? Not even heard of those, are they a thing?

No.

I’ve been abroad already this summer, and will be going again soon.

Provided you follow the rules set out by originating and destination country in my view you’re supporting jobs domestically and internationally. Many countries rely on tourism and the loss of tourism is causing a larger issue than Covid.

Personally I am not booking holidays abroad. We are still in the middle of a pandemic with new variants of concern, and no way to know if a country which is ok now would be in a months time

Plus our own tourist/hospitality/ retail industry has suffered so much I want my money to support our economy

Personally I am not booking holidays abroad. We are still in the middle of a pandemic with new variants of concern, and no way to know if a country which is ok now would be in a months time

Yes that is where I am conflicted and trying to weigh up the risks.

Plus our own tourist/hospitality/ retail industry has suffered so much I want my money to support our economy
We're lucky enough to have had several UK breaks in the last year, so don't feel guilty on that one but it's a very fair point. We probably wouldn't do a winter break in the UK any way.

Of course supporting the beleagured travel industry is not selfish.

Plus our own tourist/hospitality/ retail industry has suffered so much I want my money to support our economy

By going abroad you are still supporting the UK economy. The travel companies and airlines employ workers from the uk.

I don’t think it’s selfish but it’s not something I would do either

@TweedePrik

Where I live half of new covid cases are related to people returning from abroad, picked up on the day 1 and 7 tests. So these people likely caught covid before or whilst away and have been spreading it merrily. However I guess everyone is doing that anyway whether they leave the country or not. And of course, returning travellers are more likely to be tested.

Could you share where you got that information from please?

Tweede is just making things up. We have been abroad twice and three times in the UK. The UK was a rip off, crap weather, awful service and over priced hotels.

@SkinnyMirror

Plus our own tourist/hospitality/ retail industry has suffered so much I want my money to support our economy

By going abroad you are still supporting the UK economy. The travel companies and airlines employ workers from the uk.

Yes - airports are like mini cities, employing a wide range of people. Staff in check in, security, catering, maintenance, transport workers, cleaners and many more besides, in addition of course to those working on the airplanes themselves.

These people have really struggled over the past year and a half, so in travelling you are also supporting them, as well as those involved in tourism in your destination country.

It's not selfish, go for it.
Iv just come home from a week in Greece, we're double jabbed, we also did a LFT the day before we flew, the airports are perfectly safe, sanitised, wear masks, same on the plane, everyone on the plane is either double jabbed or been tested, the other side was as strict as the UK.
Abroad you tend to sit, eat and drink outside.
Tested before flew home and then did a day 2 test, all good, I was impressed at how easy and safe it felt

I dont think it’s selfish at this point if people are sensible and follow that countries guidance which is respectful when visiting their country. People are vaccinated. Travel is probably one of the most regulated things left. Several of my NHS colleagues have gone abroad and said it was all fine.

We all need a break and everyone will choose differently. We’ve chosen to stay the U.K. not too not cos of risk that’s far worse here where every. Just the faffing and worry of positive tests while there etc.

Nope. Been away twice in August (Romania and France), planning on Vienna in October and potentially USA in November.

The process is streamlined now regarding entry/exit, and most airlines offer some sort of insurance fallback/cancellation option should things change.

For every person who says it's selfish there are about 20 more that are jetting off. Stansted and Heathrow were both busy. There's no shame in including yourself in the former category for whatever reason if you choose, but really...if you want to go abroad then do it!

One way you can reduce the risk in the airport and on the flight is by wearing an FFP2 mask instead of a cloth one or the thin medical masks. They're compulsory on public transport in the country where I live and they do feel a lot safer. We're double vaxxed so unlikely to end up really seriously ill, but I'd still rather avoid an infection obviously.

I've just had the best week of the last 18 months in hot, sunny Croatia.
RIsk v benefit for us it was a no brainer. Feel 100% better.

I live in spain. It's full of tourists. Why is it selfish? The UK has higher rates than all the amber countries. Go and have a great time

Of course it’s not selfish.
We’ve just come back from an amber list country. It has far lower case rates than where we live in the U.K. We tested before we left the U.K., before our return and on day 2 after our return, all negative.
It was fab.

No - things like this have to start resuming, now that vaccinations, testing and safety measures are all in place.

I don't think so, as long as you follow the rules throughout, both in the UK and whichever country you're visiting.

I'm going on in 2 weeks. We've had 5 UK breaks so far this year and 2 more planned, I'm flying with UK companies and intend to spend money at the airport so I feel I'm sufficiently supporting the UK economy!

@RuleOfCat

One way you can reduce the risk in the airport and on the flight is by wearing an FFP2 mask instead of a cloth one or the thin medical masks. They're compulsory on public transport in the country where I live and they do feel a lot safer. We're double vaxxed so unlikely to end up really seriously ill, but I'd still rather avoid an infection obviously.

Thank you for that info, will look into that.

We went to France, had to go through all of the testing rigmarole and show our vaccine passes at every restaurant we also had to wear masks in shops and in towns and around markets.
We also had a few trips in this country, no vaccine pass required (I am not saying I would like a vaccine pass however) masks not needed (again, I'm happy about this but will follow the rules for whichever location I am in) and everywhere always really busy.
Staycations were lauded as being the 'safest' and most selfless type of holiday to have, if you absolutely must have a holiday. If I were nervous about Covid I would, 100%, have felt safer in France than during our UK trips.