No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

[Wellbythebloodyhell]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444

Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

Please see the study for yourself noble there is extended reading available in addition to the link I have posted.

I trust the JCVI over any government minister.

And yet the NHS are spending £100 million plus on an expansion of paediatric long covid hubs. If the numbers are so tiny why is this?

@noblegiraffe - I suspect their working shows they don’t even agree with each other.

Long covid is extremely rare in children, and in most cases resolves in 3-6 months to a full recovery, and when we counter the potential long term harm to our children using an untested vaccine, I would probably argue long covid would be the better/safer option, particularly when comparing to the swelling of the heart as a side effect which can be fatal in some cases.

While you’re right that most cases resolve, it’s certainly not all. I think if the potential long term effects of the vaccine are your concern, you should also read up on the potential long term effects of covid. (Especially the article below on myocarditis being more prevalent with covid infections than with the vaccine.)

www.alz.org/aaic/releases_2021/covid-19-cognitive-impact.asp

www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2021/08/how-does-covid-19-affect-the-brain-a-troubling-picture-emerges

www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/

@stepupandbecounted

Because the scientists have been working on Sars vaccines for 20 years?

This is incorrect.

mRNA vaccines have never been used before full stop, they are entirely brand new and this is effectively an experiment - the first one of its kind. You are referring to the AZ vaccine which was 20 years in the making and used with SARS. The two vaccines, and their components are entirely different. Please research the differences.

I have, ta. Sars vaccines for at least 20 years. mRNA vaccines since at least 2011.

The JVCI seem to be saying (assuming CMOs say it can be made available).

“We recommend it for all adults 16+, regardless of their personal situation (health and exposure risk). You can choose to follow our advice or not”.

“We are not blanket recommending it for 12-15 year olds, regardless of health status, because it is so finely balanced. But you can choose to have your children take it, depending on your own assessment of your individual child”.

@stepupandbecounted

However, a quick AS shows that you rather like to post untrue absolutes.

All teachers are doubly vaccinated, as are parents

Really? Link?

All children will get Covid

Really? Link?

I can give you links to several scientific papers on the longevity of research into mRNA as a quid pro quo.

The biggest study in the world has been published, and the results for long covid in children are very reassuring:

Yeah, I saw the headline and I was confused about why '1 in 7 kids have long covid' is being described as 'very reassuring'. It appears they found someone who said 'I thought it would be 50%' to make the 1 in 7 appear not so bad.

The study is not very good, btw.

The swelling of the heart, as you call myocarditis, is a far more common side effect of covid stepup. Far more. This is the bit I am struggling to grapple with.

If this were a thread about myocarditis as a result of govid, I feel it would be being taken in a completely different direction. It would be being called scaremongering, grips would be offered, and the word minuscule would make an appearance.

We are not blanket recommending it for 12-15 year olds, regardless of health status, because it is so finely balanced. But you can choose to have your children take it, depending on your own assessment of your individual child

Where have the JCVI said this, everything? It's not in their report.

@everythingthelighttouches

The JVCI seem to be saying (assuming CMOs say it can be made available).

“We recommend it for all adults 16+, regardless of their personal situation (health and exposure risk). You can choose to follow our advice or not”.

“We are not blanket recommending it for 12-15 year olds, regardless of health status, because it is so finely balanced. But you can choose to have your children take it, depending on your own assessment of your individual child”.

This sounds ok to me.

[quote Walkaround]@Islamorada - I’ve never noticed parents shunning the parents and children who have refused the flu vaccine.[/quote]
Adults didn’t shun other adults who didn’t have the flu vaccine either but look at the reaction to adults who are choosing not to have the coronavirus vaccine.

The biggest study in the world has been published, and the results for long covid in children are very reassuring

“Very reassuring” except for the kids whose symptoms don’t resolve after 3/6 months and who are left with ongoing problems.

Again, “most” does not equal “all”.

There is no long term data at all available anywhere in the world for mRNA vaccines. It does not exist.

The scientists behind the mRNA started very small human trials in cancer patients in 2011, the only large scale human trials that have happened were actually in 2020! So only just over a year ago, hardly thoroughly tested in anyone's view.

Vaccines usually take decades to develop, for good reason, many long term effects may not be seen until many many years later.
It is normal for vaccines to take more than twenty years or more, and so whilst the 'fast track approach ' is appropriate for adults at covid risk, is not appropriate for healthy children not at risk in the view of many scientists and JCVI.

The benefit/risk ratio is not favourable for children.

This is not rocket science, it is common sense.

@Piggywaspushed

The swelling of the heart, as you call myocarditis, is a far more common side effect of covid stepup. Far more. This is the bit I am struggling to grapple with.

If this were a thread about myocarditis as a result of govid, I feel it would be being taken in a completely different direction. It would be being called scaremongering, grips would be offered, and the word minuscule would make an appearance.

Quite.

noblegiraffe

See my link top of page 19. BBC interview with deputy chair of JVCI. Quite a different tone to the press release.

The benefit/risk ratio is not favourable for children.

This is not what the JCVI concluded.

@stepupandbecounted

There is no long term data at all available anywhere in the world for mRNA vaccines. It does not exist.

The scientists behind the mRNA started very small human trials in cancer patients in 2011, the only large scale human trials that have happened were actually in 2020! So only just over a year ago, hardly thoroughly tested in anyone's view.

Vaccines usually take decades to develop, for good reason, many long term effects may not be seen until many many years later.
It is normal for vaccines to take more than twenty years or more, and so whilst the 'fast track approach ' is appropriate for adults at covid risk, is not appropriate for healthy children not at risk in the view of many scientists and JCVI.

The benefit/risk ratio is not favourable for children.

This is not rocket science, it is common sense.

Hun, you need to step away from the wacko websites.

@bumbleymummy - you can pretty much guarantee adults refusing the flu vaccine during a flu pandemic would be shunned!

pigg The heart inflammation and damage to the tissues as a side effect to the vaccine is just one element. For many parents the prospect of putting an untested vaccine into their children that has NO long term data feels totally irresponsible.

It is not just about the issues of side effects, but the total lack of available data on mRNA vaccines.

The swelling of the heart, as you call myocarditis, is a far more common side effect of covid stepup. Far more. This is the bit I am struggling to grapple with.

This is what I’m struggling to understand too @Piggywaspushed

This is from the New Scientist article in my previous post:

males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections. This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.

@everythingthelighttouches

noblegiraffe

See my link top of page 19. BBC interview with deputy chair of JVCI. Quite a different tone to the press release.

Thanks, everything, missed that link. Basically washing his hands of the decision and putting it onto parents. Not even Chris Whitty.

Those are two different issues stepup. I feel you are highlighting the heart issue because it works better as an argument. Really your issue is the vaccine and your belief it hasn't been trialled.

Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle.

This thread, as per usual has all the usual suspects of the teachers wanting everyone vaccinated for their OWN benefit, not for the benefit of the children I might add.

Having given up trying to close the schools down, we have the next battleground.

Well let me tell you that parents will make their own minds up about the safety of vaccines for children. THEY will decide what is right for their children balancing the unique needs of their own child's health versus the benefit they are likely to receive from the vaccination.

It is not for anyone, anywhere to make that decision for them or to apply pressure. I won't be vaccinating my children until I am sure it is safe. I am quite happy to run the risk of long covid.

I would argue it is an unethical to pressure someone either way, given no one knows the long term outcome of using mRNA vaccines nor the risk factor/health issues of individual children.

I suggest anyone that is unsure, have a conversation with your GP. I found it most helpful, and concluded we will wait.

@stepupandbecounted - there is no long term research into covid 19. Research to date indicates the vaccine wins hands down in terms of things people might consider taking the risk of.