Mandatory Covid vaccine

[Aldilogue]

Hello all.
I'm a nurse in regional NSW. Where I live we have not had a Covid case for 500 days. I work in a private hospital on a surgical ward ( all elective surgeries) mainly orthopaedic surgery but also gastric sleeves, urinary, hysterectomies and sone medical patients as the public hospital is full and we get some overflow.
Our government has released a public health order stating all healthcare workers who work in NSW need to have at least once dose of AstraZeneca or Pfizer before September 30. If you do not you "will be excluded from the workplace".
I'm interested in opinions as I know it's not mandatory in the Uk.

For people saying that it should be mandatory for healthcare staff. What if they have already had coronavirus? I know some will argue that they don’t know that the person is definitely immune but we don’t know that someone is definitely immune after the vaccine either and we accept that. There are several studies that show durable immunity after infection and that reinfection is rare.

You might want to RTFT. Your comment doesn't really apply in this case, in this area, in this state, and this country.

But tbf I think this poster summed it up more succinctly.

Other countries are demonstrating the possible future of the uk. In France very recently an unvaccinated paramedic was refused entry to a care home who had called them to help a desperately ill elderly resident. Would all those people saying they’d prefer for medical staff to be vaccinated before allowing them to be treated or to treat their relatives like this to happen in the uk? For an elderly relative (probably vaccinated themselves) to be left to die from something they could have been saved from in the rare event the treating medic had active covid at the time? What if that paramedic had the flu or a norovirus or even hiv? Care to carry on with this baseless discrimination?

@LilyPond2
All vaccinations have issues, you have to weigh up each one

Your post implies no issues with Pfizer which is wrong, they have clot issues as well as potentially causing inflammation of the heart in some

@Lostinacloud

Other countries are demonstrating the possible future of the uk. In France very recently an unvaccinated paramedic was refused entry to a care home who had called them to help a desperately ill elderly resident. Would all those people saying they’d prefer for medical staff to be vaccinated before allowing them to be treated or to treat their relatives like this to happen in the uk? For an elderly relative (probably vaccinated themselves) to be left to die from something they could have been saved from in the rare event the treating medic had active covid at the time? What if that paramedic had the flu or a norovirus or even hiv? Care to carry on with this baseless discrimination?

Source for this news story? I imagine if true, appropriate policies can be put in place to minimise the risk of this happening, I don't think anyone is suggesting that they would rather their relative die than be treated by a HCP who isn't vaccinated.

COVID isn't 'flu (people have some level of baseline immunity, most HCPs are vaccinated anyway), norovirus (no vaccine, people isolate upon onset of symptoms and certainly don't go to work) or HIV (not easily transmitted, medications exist which allow people to be non-infectious).

It isn't baseless discrimination when certain vaccines have been mandated for various HCP roles globally. I was required to have the 'flu vaccine for one such role, I didn't kick up a fuss even though I'm very low risk of personally being ill from it.

Not sure how they could prove if someone either has or hasn't had the vaccine

@CannotBeBothered01

Not sure how they could prove if someone either has or hasn't had the vaccine

True you can't prove if someone hasn't had it if they say they have. But if a vaccine is required for work or travel or whatever then an official record tends to be needed.

To enter almost everywhere in france at the moment you need to show a health pass which proves you’ve been vaccinated or had a negative test within the last 72 hrs. From September, it becomes mandatory for many professions to be vaccinated and those employees wishing to remain unvaccinated will be sacked and not entitled to state assistance. As I said, other countries are already demonstrating the horrible and very slippery slope downwards of mandatory vaccinations or acceptance of discrimination becomes normal.

My nephews in the US have to have both vaccinations in order to return to their Uni campus and attend classes. Another benefit is all their classes are f2f rather than the mixture being offered by some U.K. Unis.

In the country with such a low spread, I can see the reluctance to the vaccination. But it seems like it won't stay that way forever. It's such a shame if people are reluctant to get vaccinated until it's too late though. If majority are vaccinated while virus is at bay, then there's a great chance the country can survive the pandemic without too much damage for both life and economy, like many countries are experiencing now.

@Aldilogue

Hello all. I'm a nurse in regional NSW. Where I live we have not had a Covid case for 500 days. I work in a private hospital on a surgical ward ( all elective surgeries) mainly orthopaedic surgery but also gastric sleeves, urinary, hysterectomies and sone medical patients as the public hospital is full and we get some overflow. Our government has released a public health order stating all healthcare workers who work in NSW need to have at least once dose of AstraZeneca or Pfizer before September 30. If you do not you "will be excluded from the workplace". I'm interested in opinions as I know it's not mandatory in the Uk.

I think this will happen in the UK, they are already saying those in care homes have to be vaccinated to be able to work

Thanks again for your reply salted. As I said, I was asking for people’s opinions on vaccinations for previously infected people irt them being permitted to work with the vulnerable. It is, as always, lovely to hear your opinion but there are others who have expressed their preference for care workers to be vaccinated and I would like to know their opinion on whether or not they would be happy with previously infected people treated their loved ones as well.

Treating* not treated

Safety of the vaccine is already proven by numbers of people who have taken the vaccines in many other countries. Also what the virus can do is proven by the experience of many countries.
I live in UK but in my native country, people are fighting over vaccine. Lucky if you have a choice to get it or not.

This article should make you decide whether you want natural infection or vaccine, if you are worried.
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/blood-clot-risk-greater-after-covid-infection-than-after-vaccination

@CannotBeBothered01

Not sure how they could prove if someone either has or hasn't had the vaccine

They usually require some sort of certificate. Here, the nhs app shows if you’ve had two doses. In other countries, the ‘green pass’ includes vaccination status/proof of a negative test or proof of previous infection.

@illuyankas did the study break the risk down by age group? Iirc the issue with the AZ vaccine was the clots were more likely in older people with the virus so the vaccine was lower risk but in younger populations the risk of clots was lower so the vaccine was an increased risk which is why they stopped using it in younger people.

@bumbleymummy I am happy with the regular testing (twice a wk I believe it is here for NHS) whatever the vaccination status for my own care.

For my vulnerable family members who were perhaps having close contact, surgery or other, I would prefer further reassurance but this is because I’ve seen severe covid up close and I’m extra cautious as a result.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/30/sydney-icu-nurses-sedating-patientsmore-to-manage-workload-as-covid-outbreak-strains-hospitals

@bumbleymummy

Thanks again for your reply salted. As I said, I was asking for people’s opinions on vaccinations for previously infected people irt them being permitted to work with the vulnerable. It is, as always, lovely to hear your opinion but there are others who have expressed their preference for care workers to be vaccinated and I would like to know their opinion on whether or not they would be happy with previously infected people treated their loved ones as well.

I think it was quite clear that this thread is specifically on mandatory vaccination for certain healthcare roles in Australia, a country which does not have a high degree of individuals with a previous infection. There are many other threads on this issue in the UK and other countries which are not comparable.

The consequences of incentivising getting infected in such a population should have been included in your post.

I’ve read that in America companies have increased the contributions to health care for unvaccinated employees by $200 dollars a month. They have a choice and the company has a responsibility to their staff and in the case patients.

DH company has insisted on self isolation where a house member tests positive.

My work insist on LFT twice a week, which at some point we will have to pay for ourselves - the government won’t take the financial hit forever more.

@bumbleymummy

In the country like UK, yes, I would be happy to be treated by someone with natural immunity too, if you can prove it, as well as someone who has been vaccinated.

It's really frustrating, isn't it? You always refer to other country that recognise proof of infection, but dismiss what UK gov is doing about vaccinating 12+.

I do hope, for the sake of people, they do recognise the natural immunity as same as vaccine immunity, and also do vaccinate children who wants to be vaccinated.

I was reading a comment on other forum about effect of covid. Someone said some children have fatigue or loss of smell/taste after 8 weeks which is not serious. But I don't think it is. For a growing child, loss of smell or taste is a quite big issue. I've seen the interview(in my native country's new channel) by a uni student who had to put a hold to her education because of the loss of the taste and smell. She said everything smells like a petrol, so she lost appetite and end up being really depressed and everything fell apart. I feel for her. Maybe for you, it's not a big deal because she hasn't died.

What you are doing on MN is harmful. Down playing everything, saying death rate is only 2%, etc. It's not just death that matter.
You are promoting people to have worse case of scenario. Should be ashamed of yourself, but I know it's like banging my head against the wall.

@bumbleymummy
I was typing my big post, so I didn't see your comment.
The study link is there on the article, if you have actually read the article before commenting.

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931

What you are doing on MN is harmful. Down playing everything, saying death rate is only 2%, etc. It's not just death that matter. You are promoting people to have worse case of scenario. Should be ashamed of yourself, but I know it's like banging my head against the wall.

It's depressing because this isn't an academic debate where consequences are hypothetical and far-off, we've been in a public health emergency state for a long time, and all this posting has real life harmful consequences. It's the amount of time and commitment to propagating these views I just don't understand. It's not a positive contribution.

@Aldilogue

So tonight the government has announced that anyone who works in a local government area experiencing an outbreak will have to be vaccinated to work by September 6. I'm talking about meat workers, construction workers etc. They have also made it mandatory for teachers by November 8. Do that make a difference? They are not health workers. Do they need to find a new career too?

^ That’s insane! I couldn’t care less if someone has been vaccinated or not, because they can still give me the virus.

I think its disgusting. No one should be coerced into a medical procedure they don't want.

Here in the UK care home workers will have to be vaxxed by November to carry on working but there is already a shortage of care workers in my area of the UK and they think they are going to lose around 8% of their staff to this law. Care home managers are extremely worried about staffing

“Harmful consequences” for asking people’s opinions on immunity after infection? “Harmful consequences” for pointing out that immunity after infection is durable , based on several recent studies? Seriously, some of you need to get over yourselves. Heaven forbid someone should mention that people also gain immunity after infection. It’s not exactly a news flash, is it?

Yes, many people in Australia will not actually have natural immunity so it may not apply as much over there - yet - but people on this thread are discussing their opinions on the situation in the U.K. as well so that is why I’ve asked their opinion. I think it’s interesting (and relevant) to find out people’s views irt vaccine status/immune status in healthcare settings.

My own opinion is that I wouldn’t mind how the immunity was acquired.