Mandatory Covid vaccine

[Aldilogue]

Hello all.
I'm a nurse in regional NSW. Where I live we have not had a Covid case for 500 days. I work in a private hospital on a surgical ward ( all elective surgeries) mainly orthopaedic surgery but also gastric sleeves, urinary, hysterectomies and sone medical patients as the public hospital is full and we get some overflow.
Our government has released a public health order stating all healthcare workers who work in NSW need to have at least once dose of AstraZeneca or Pfizer before September 30. If you do not you "will be excluded from the workplace".
I'm interested in opinions as I know it's not mandatory in the Uk.

I personally think it's fucked to mandate a vaccine that's still in its trial phase.

@eandz13

I personally think it's fucked to mandate a vaccine that's still in its trial phase.

You'll be delighted to know then that none of the Covid vaccines are in their trial phase

Just like I am uncomfortable with the idea of kids who have not have their baby jabs etc in school with my kids I would not be happy with health care professionals who have not had their jabs looking after me or vulnerable family members.

Majority of the people who are dying are elderly people already in AGEM wards in the hospital in outbreak areas, where the spread is from other patients, not the staff and they are already sick. The staff all have full PPE. 80 and 90 year olds. 2 or 3 a day. Hardly remarkable. They are nearly all vaccinated having one or both doses. If they haven't had both it's because the government stuffed up the rollout.
The elderly should have been vaccinated first.
For the record, we all wear full PPE in our hospital even though we don't have cases.

AZ vaccine one of the big side effects is 1 in 15 million people getting it which is a 0.00000007% chance.

Does NSW have a low vaccine uptake?
If you have no covid in the community and low vaccine coverage then when covid arrives (and it will at some point) there will be a lot of unprotected people for it to rip through.

Is it the only way they can get people to get vaccinated if they aren't going for it voluntarily?

I cannot understand why a nurse, a medically qualified professional, would not have researched the vaccines, the way they were developed, and the statistically small chances of side-effects and realised that it is unreasonable not to take the jab.

Delta spreads and spreads. Just because it's not prevalent in your area doesn't mean it won't be.

Highest in Australia, 6 million doses administered already.

Don’t schools ask for history of immunisations for pupils in Australia?

As someone in healthcare do you have other mandatory vaccines?

I'm pro choice not pro vax or anti vax
I'm talking about choice being removed not just vax status
MN holds very strong views and I'm interested if people had thought that this may happen to them

I think it’s quite common for people in the U.K. to be pro choice. They would not, in general, be in favour of mandatory vaccinations. However, for the most part, that stance very much goes hand in hand with them also being of the opinion that ‘but why wouldn’t you get vaccinated?’ when talking about carers of the vulnerable, health care settings, schools etc. So, yes, we’re overwhelmingly pro choice and against mandatory vaccination but also we expect people to make ‘the right choice’ and would largely be in favour of the government taking that stance too. If, however, the government started to make noises about whole industries outside of the obvious health care, teaching etc, being irresponsible if they didn’t wholeheartedly take up the vaccine, then most people would not be ok with that. We teeter on the edge. If our government (whichever government of the day that might be) tried to bring in sweeping legislation about any type of vaccine being mandatory I think even those very pro vaccine would be up in arms. Am I right in thinking that you have mandatory vaccination in place for eg MMR - linked to allowing children to go to school? I don’t think, no matter how sensible people here think MMR vaccination is, they would put up with that kind of legislation tbh. Because once you do, it’s a slippery slope.

Yes they do.
All three of my children have had all of their compulsory vaccines.
Yes in Australia we have hep b, flu and TB ( get that in year 8 I think) which are required to work in hospitals but not aged care.

@eandz13

I personally think it's fucked to mandate a vaccine that's still in its trial phase.

Jolly good it's no longer in trial phase then!

@PuppyMonkey

I think if you make an elective decision to work in healthcare, you abide by the rules laid down by the organisation employing you. If you aren’t willing to have a mandatory vaccine, you’ll need to seek a different job.

Yes. I agree.

Don't children have to be vaccinated against certain things in order to access daycare and other things in Australia?

Sorry, cross posted with you there.

You have the right to choose not to be vaccinated. And the health service has the right to have rules, including staff having up to date vaccinations. And if you choose to not get vaccinated, then you don’t get to stay in the job.
What you’re fighting about is the consequences of your choices. Welcome to being a part of a society. You’re not a toddler. Stop acting like one.

As I said in a previous post the government has made in mandatory for construction workers by sept 8 and teachers by nov 8.
Is that ok?

heldinadream helpful response. I haven't been rude, I'm asking for opinions on an issue.

@Aldilogue

It's elective surgery.

Whilst officially termed 'elective', I'm not sure anyone undergoing hysterectomy or urinary surgery would agree they have much choice.

@ZednotZee

I rhinknits despicable but I know I am in the minority on MN.

Fact remains that patients who have been double vaccinated are more a risk to unvaccinated hospital staff than the reverse.

Mandatory vaccination is pure political grandstanding and is the thin end of an ideological wedge which ultimately will not end well for any of us.

You are incorrect. Unvaccinated people are a risk to other unvaccinated people and vaccinated. Thankfully all my friends and family have now had both vaccinations and the more vulnerable will have boosters when available.

That's my opinion. You got my opinion.

@Aldilogue

As I said in a previous post the government has made in mandatory for construction workers by sept 8 and teachers by nov 8. Is that ok?

I'd be interested in the rationale specifically for construction workers. Given that presumably they don't work in close contact with others and often outside?

Why have the government mandated it for them and not say, those working in supermarkets? It seems a little odd.

As a pre-requisite for working as a HCP or teacher I can understand and support.

@Aldilogue

I'm totally down the middle. If people are vaccinated I think good on you, do want you think is right for you. If someone is not vaccinated I think they have their reasons and have genuine concerns as to why. These reasons aren't always black and white. My issue is the unelected health minister decided that health workers will be excluded from their workplace if they do not comply with his orders. I'm pro choice not pro vax or anti vax. I'm talking about choice being removed not just vax status. MN holds very strong views and I'm interested if people had thought that this may happen to them.

I'm interested to know where it in NSW you are that hasn't had a case in 500 days? Is it more to the west of the State? If so, I'm sure you're aware there is an increased risk to the indigenous population. Covid would be devastating for them; controls of all kinds are essential. If you work in healthcare I'd expect you to appreciate that.

And why do say Brad Hazzard is unelected?

I assume this is the Australian government are realising this is the only way to get people vaccinanted. Their approach of locking down completely may have eradicated cases but has caused an aura of complacency amongst the general public.
Covid will return and spread in Australia eventually and the government are panicking.

*I'd be interested in the rationale specifically for construction workers. Given that presumably they don't work in close contact with others and often outside?

Why have the government mandated it for them and not say, those working in supermarkets? It seems a little odd.

As a pre-requisite for working as a HCP or teacher I can understand and support.*

@saltedcaramel87 For whatever reason, Australia has seen a good amount of spread of Delta between workers on construction sites (mapped by genomic sequencing). This is in spite of workers having to wear masks while on site.

@LilyPond2 I don’t think lethal thrombocytopenia is the expression but acute. The risk is tiny and treatable.

Acute IPT can occur after a virus it is usually, treatable and transient. Covid infection can induce IPT at a much much higher rate than the AZ rate, hugely higher. The immune system over reacts in rare cases following vaccination and more commonly following natural infection. When I looked it was less than 1 in 400 infections.

Blood clots are high risk for severe covid cases.

Now this genuine risk (for both vaccines) is understood the signs in the window following vaccination are readily picked up on and treatments invoked.

If you want to avoid IPT, avoid covid.