Mandatory Covid vaccine

[Aldilogue]

Hello all.
I'm a nurse in regional NSW. Where I live we have not had a Covid case for 500 days. I work in a private hospital on a surgical ward ( all elective surgeries) mainly orthopaedic surgery but also gastric sleeves, urinary, hysterectomies and sone medical patients as the public hospital is full and we get some overflow.
Our government has released a public health order stating all healthcare workers who work in NSW need to have at least once dose of AstraZeneca or Pfizer before September 30. If you do not you "will be excluded from the workplace".
I'm interested in opinions as I know it's not mandatory in the Uk.

I have just signed up for a private medical service in India to help take care of my elderly mother. All staff are both highly trained and double vaxxed. This is really a no-brainer in many countries and it will eventually become a no-brainer for medical staff everywhere. Just like Hep B vaccines are mandatory.

Yes but there is a very large difference between hep b and tetanus vaccines and the covid vaccine. The former have been tried and tested and long lasting effects understood and in use for years and years. The covid vaccine is new technology and effectively still in the trial stage with absolutely zero long term data.
And if we are now to understand that vaccinated people are less likely to spread covid even if infected because they should have less symptoms then what was the whole asymptomatic spread argument about?

Most COVID vaccines are not new technology.

Also the tendency of a individual to shed virus is not entirely related to how ill someone is or becomes. Some people are just shedders, I guess it's an immune system thing.

Covid vaccines are not new technology. Anyone with an eye on whats happening in the US, where hospital beds are filling with the unvaxxed and Texas hospitals are running out of ICU beds? Healthcare workers should fulfill safety requirements, not fill more beds if they get ill. If you can't live with that, quit.

Mandatory vaccination is pure political grandstanding and is the thin end of an ideological wedge which ultimately will not end well for any of us.

Agree completely with this. I'm strongly opposed to mandating vaccines, especially against an illness which is very survivable.

With 4.5m people worldwide having died from Covid, hardly very survivable?

It's survivable for most, we know this. Those at risk have the jab available to them, and many others have had it willingly. There is no reason to cross the red line of bodily autonomy.

How awful. So freedom of choice is only possibly if you can afford it?

Or you don’t want to go indoors. You could get around it if you shop in an open market or get someone to shop for you.

I'm in France. The mandatory childhood vaccines are necessary for all children to go to, kindergarten, school, day care, after school clubs etc. No vaccines no schooling.

Anyone over 18 who is unvaccinated cannot go to any leisure activities or restaurants, without a lateral flow test of less than 48h. As of September all testing will be paid for the unvaccinated. So not obligatory but a lot of stick and carrot.

My 4 kids aged between 12-16 are double vaccinated. If the weren't they would now have the option to be vaccinated at Lycee if they wanted.

Life here is being severely restricted for the unvaccinated and I'm ok with that. So would this be a better option do you think?

IMO, your bodily autonomy stops where a vulnerable person's body- that you are charged with keeping healthy-begins.

@Lostinacloud
The idea that being vaccinated keeps others safe is ludicrous

They don't "keep[s] people safe", but they contribute towards it. The less people who have it (which the vaccines reduce), the less people catch it.

immunity is hugely more robust than the vaccine and that it’s almost impossible for someone with natural immunity to catch covid again or be able to pass it on.

So it's "almost impossible" to contract covid more than once? Not sure the facts line up with your US Conservative opinion.

as a nurse that needed all her vaccines to get into training and additional follow up to work on maternity (rubella titers etc.) i have no qualms with all health care workers needing this and all other vaccines.
other sectors can set their own health and safety standards. i'm fully expecting the oil and gas industry to follow suit with fly in fly out workers etc.

@Lostinacloud

Regarding transmission and the vaccine. This is related to the Delta variant. The vaccines were more effective all around with Alpha.

Regarding the vaccine technology. It depends on the vaccine. There are multiple available internationally using different methodology. Some established for ‘years and years’ and even more vaccines using more familiar technologies are in trial.

You are right to question any medical therapy new or otherwise but what about the long term effects of a covid infection even a mild one.

This is a new virus it’s source unknown, it’s long term impact is unknown. What is known is that it has taken millions of lives and impacted millions more through lasting organ damage, neurological complications, autoimmune disease, blood clots and the like. Certain things, like the loss of smell, it is being suggested that it is the virus having affected the brain. That might be true, it might not be, but we can’t say we know the long term impact of natural infection, not just jabs.

My worry is that mandating medical procedures becomes acceptable and normalised - which is becoming a reality already according to this thread. When that becomes the case, where does our own choice end and state control begin? What if they want to mandatory vaccinate all children, despite worrying side effects already becoming evident. Do parents still get a choice or is that decision passed to the state? And what else will people offer up in the name of societal safety if enough have been convinced it’s for the greater good?
Statistically covid is way less of a risk to almost all under 55’s than driving, flying, smoking, drinking, taking part in an extreme sport, crossing the road and probably even walking down stairs, yet many have agreed to mandate vaccines that haven’t been fully tested and where the already known risks of side effects don’t outweigh the benefit when taking into account age and general health status.

I certainly don't want to be treated by unvaccinated medical stuff. My ds suffered post op infection while back. That was awful. That is something I would rather not experience if avoidable.

Well that’s the other thing I don’t understand. If you or your elderly family member has been vaccinated then what possible danger is an unvaccinated person to you or them? In the first instance, not all unvaccinated people have permanent covid and number 2, it will be them who potentially falls unwell, you or your elderly relative is protected by the vaccine. It makes no sense to me and I wish people would get some of their critical thinking and common sense back and not just absorb everything blasted out by the BBC.

You can still get Covid if you have been vaccinated but it is, in the majority, likely to be less severe and life threatening. However why would anyone want to risk affecting someone else’s health or your own by being unvaccinated?

Just get vaccinated.

Not everyone can for medical reasons have the vaccine. My friend is one. She has regular hospital treatment and has no wish to be put at further risk by being given her treatment by an unvaccinated member of staff.

@Parker231

With 4.5m people worldwide having died from Covid, hardly very survivable?

Eh? Isn’t the survival rate over 98%? I’d say that’s pretty survivable, yes.

98%, that's fantastic. That's only 1 in 50 people who get it will die.

That's pretty much noone in the unvaccinated classroom, where it's left to spread, unchecked. That's only 20 pupils in my DCs school.

Nowt to worry about. Am sure they'll be the ones noone cares about anyway.

@PuppyMonkey

I think if you make an elective decision to work in healthcare, you abide by the rules laid down by the organisation employing you. If you aren’t willing to have a mandatory vaccine, you’ll need to seek a different job.

I agree, and I am against any form of vaccine coercion, but you have to be a special kind of stupid to work with vulnerable people and refuse any necessary vaccines. If you don't want to do it, you can find another job.

Obviously those unable to have it for medical reasons are exempt from that.

I think it’s actually a much higher survival rate tbh. I was being conservative. It’s also not the same throughout the age groups. Age is the biggest risk factor and older people are significantly more at risk of dying than children. The median age of death is around 82 isn’t it? Surely you know his though? It hasn’t exactly been hidden.

My last post to @DumplingsAndStew

Good job you hardly ever find elderly people or those with suppressed immune systems in a healthcare setting then isnt it.