Mandatory Covid vaccine

[Aldilogue]

Hello all.
I'm a nurse in regional NSW. Where I live we have not had a Covid case for 500 days. I work in a private hospital on a surgical ward ( all elective surgeries) mainly orthopaedic surgery but also gastric sleeves, urinary, hysterectomies and sone medical patients as the public hospital is full and we get some overflow.
Our government has released a public health order stating all healthcare workers who work in NSW need to have at least once dose of AstraZeneca or Pfizer before September 30. If you do not you "will be excluded from the workplace".
I'm interested in opinions as I know it's not mandatory in the Uk.

I don't personally believe that the government should be able to stipulate that all people have to get vaccinated but it's not unusual for certain workplaces to state that certain vaccinations are mandatory to work there, so this doesn't bother me, especially after reading about the unvaccinated teacher in Florida who infected half their class.

I’m strongly in favour of vaccination and think people refusing for spurious reasons and crap they’ve read on Facebook are utter twats. I’m also extremely concerned about the increasingly authoritarian stance being taken in Australia and New Zealand. Mandatory quarantine for positive cases, the harshest lockdowns of any western democracies which are still not working against delta anyway, now mandatory vaccination which I could just about accept as justified for healthcare workers. Australians can’t leave the country ffs. No. None of this is ok. We should all be concerned.

I'm behind this. I was also happy to take the MMR jab when I was younger, and while the flu jab isn't mandatory I am happy to take it annually to reduce the impact of staff sickness on my ward and the chances of my giving it to others.

What I would say is that I live in an area with a higher number of vaccinated folks than the national average (small village, mostly older population). I feel I am able to go about life normally here as we've done all we can to make it as safe possible for everyone. I wish everyone had this degree of safety and freedom.

I can't recall what they were now but I also happily took the vaccines required to visit certain countries when I was young and travelling.

hospitals have a duty to ensure the safety of their patients and staff. I think mandatory vaccines for staff is entirely appropriate (with any exceptions approved by occupational health) within the context of a global pandemic.

The fact that locally you have few cases at present is irrelevant.

@AlixandraTheGreat

*I'd be interested in the rationale specifically for construction workers. Given that presumably they don't work in close contact with others and often outside?

Why have the government mandated it for them and not say, those working in supermarkets? It seems a little odd.

As a pre-requisite for working as a HCP or teacher I can understand and support.*

@saltedcaramel87 For whatever reason, Australia has seen a good amount of spread of Delta between workers on construction sites (mapped by genomic sequencing). This is in spite of workers having to wear masks while on site.

Oh that's interesting, thanks for the reply.

I'm in Sydney and have watched this debacle play out. While I'm disgusted with the handling by both state and federal governments I agree with mandatory vaccination particularly in sectors dealing with the public. We've seen Covid infiltrate many small towns across NSW and screening is certainly not 100% effective. Unless you have a medical condition precluding you from getting vaccine I fail to understand why you wouldn't.

OP
What sort of compensation is available to people who are injured from the vaccine?

This is the bit that worries me. Will vaccine injury be recognised and compensated? Or will it be ignored?

My opinion is that vaccines should be mandatory for all healthcare staff unless medical exemptions apply.

What kind of compensation will you receive if you develop long COVID and can’t work for months?

I think mandatory vaccination is a really bad idea and could be counterproductive as no one likes to be forced into anything, especially given the low level of cases where you are.

IMO it's more important to encourage people to be behave responsibly.
You could be unvaccinated and be very careful not to mix with lots of people, regular handwashing etc and have a low chance of catching covid or you could be vaccinated and be out partying every night, no masks, distancing or regular handwashing etc and have a much higher chance of catching covid.
Unless a vaccine appears that stops transmission then how an individual behaves and their lifestyle seems to influence their chance of catching and passing on covid more than if they are vaccinated IMO.

@saltedcaramel87
the construction industry has been heavily protected from lockdowns by both state and federal government supposedly to protect the economy, in fact they have only stopped work for two weeks total in nsw since the beginning in 2020. A large proportion of labourers live in the south/western suburbs where the majority of the outbreak is. Northern and eastern suburbs are largely made up of white collar workers who can do their job from home. Obviously they're traveling all over Sydney and across the state to work and the risk of further spreading it is high.

@AlixandraTheGreat

*I'd be interested in the rationale specifically for construction workers. Given that presumably they don't work in close contact with others and often outside?

Why have the government mandated it for them and not say, those working in supermarkets? It seems a little odd.

As a pre-requisite for working as a HCP or teacher I can understand and support.*

@saltedcaramel87 For whatever reason, Australia has seen a good amount of spread of Delta between workers on construction sites (mapped by genomic sequencing). This is in spite of workers having to wear masks while on site.

And despite the mandate to wear masks they're usually either under the chin or not wearing one at all.

I think it should be mandatory for healthcare staff. Yes vaccines carry a risk, so does covid. So does crossing the road, owning a dog, eating grapes.

@Aldilogue

It's already mandatory for aged care workers here. As I said in my OP we have not had a case here for 500 days and all patients are screened for Covid because it is elective surgery. Im talking about choice being taken away. I didnt say if I was vaccinated or not.

If you have had barely any cases then there's likely very little natural immunity and your area is much higher risk once covid spreads to the area (which it inevitably will at some point) I'm not sure I agree with it being mandatory though, maybe a money incentive would be a better idea? So healthcare workers get paid £300 for getting the vaccine for example - which would be easily made up in reduced cases if medical care is state funded and lockdowns due to lack of medical staff or high cases are avoided

No one should be paid to have the vaccinations - they should do it because it’s the right thing to do.

@ZednotZee

I rhinknits despicable but I know I am in the minority on MN.

Fact remains that patients who have been double vaccinated are more a risk to unvaccinated hospital staff than the reverse.

Mandatory vaccination is pure political grandstanding and is the thin end of an ideological wedge which ultimately will not end well for any of us.

Well I agree completely

Sleep walking into a totalitarian nightmare

Same here in Italy. Already mandatory for HCPs and teachers.
Will probably become one of the mandatory childhood vaccines in due course. (Here children can't go to school of they haven't had the mandatory ones. You can choose not to have them, but then you have to find alternatives to school)

@eandz13

I personally think it's fucked to mandate a vaccine that's still in its trial phase.

Except they've been developing SARS vaccines for 20 years.

I think the fact that the incidence of covid is so low might be part of the reason. People probably aren't lining up to get vaccinated voluntarily the way they have done in the UK. Ideally you want as many people as possible vaccinated before you get hit by covid. Ideally you want that to be voluntary. While there's no covid in the area, there's no immediate risk from it, but there is of course a tiny risk from the vaccine, so I understand people not rushing to get it. The trouble is that if you do end up witha massive delta breakout, it will be too late.

Yes, often vaccinated patients will be more of a risk to unvaccinated staff than the other way round. But hopefully, you would want staff to be as little of a risk to patients as possible. That includes unvaccinated patients. Vaccinated staff should be less of a risk than unvaccinated staff to patients (and each other).

And in terms of protecting services, unvaccinated staff are obviously more at risk of getting ill themselves and being off and of spreading it to other staff (not to mention patients).

Not coming out on any side of the argument, just making the case for why there might be a push to get staff vaccinated if they're reluctant, and at least thinking about the pros and cons of making it mandatory if it doesn't happen.

@ZednotZee

I rhinknits despicable but I know I am in the minority on MN.

Fact remains that patients who have been double vaccinated are more a risk to unvaccinated hospital staff than the reverse.

Mandatory vaccination is pure political grandstanding and is the thin end of an ideological wedge which ultimately will not end well for any of us.

No. Fact remains that, as ever, you are one of a minority on MN who spread misinformation as fact on vaccination threads. Unless you have a link (not from the swivel headed conspiracy theorists you usually link to) of course.

Get the jab.

@Geamhradh

I have linked to one study in the entirety of my time on MN.

Are you certain you are addressing the correct poster?

If you work in healthcare then you vaccinate yourself to protect your vulnerable patients. If your a nurse, I would hope that you are educated and know that the science behind this is effective at reducing disease and transmission. This is not a new thing. I'm a nurse and it is also mandatory to have other vaccinations before you can work. Your not being forced to get the vaccine, you have the choice to get another job in another field, where you have the choice to refuse it. The government is trying to protect the vulnerable in the community by maintaining herd immunity.

@season2

I was going to ask if the mandate meant people were actually doing what is asked of them.

Despite masks being mandated in many scenarios here, I'm still seeing people who really, really should (and can) be wearing masks, are not.