If the government were honest about the next 4 months

[RuleWithAWoodenFoot]

They'd say that children are probably going to catch covid, there is nothing to stop this happening. Lots of families will probably catch it off their children, school staff will probably catch it off children too.

Education is going to be disrupted again if the above happens. No way around it. But it could be 'over' by November when the bad weather kicks in and older folk start getting ill as per usual circumstances. At that point booster vaccs could start.

It's definitely 'an approach', but not telling people that this is the plan is unfair. Do you think people have realised this yet? Or are the Emperor's new clothes still in view?

@Peteycat

What I don't understand is that you trusted the government enough to take the vaccine I assume? But now you don't agree with their approach going into Autumn. I'm finding this so bizarre.

eh?

Not the PP, but you can be confident in the safety and importance of taking up the vaccine whilst still disagreeing with government policies regarding coronavirus suppression.

I'm just wondering why the government isn't just honest about it

Imho because they’re cowards. Throughout this whole pandemic their inability to deliver unpopular news has been achingly obvious. The last eighteen months have been littered with time wasting ‘recommendations’ and ‘advice’ like encountering covid is some sort of personal choice. They’ve successfully managed to get people to think that and squabble amongst themselves instead of keeping a level head and actually leading the country through this crisis . Probably too busy being relieved it took the attention off Brexit.

I can’t think of a way to spin ‘your kids are all going to get this virus that closed down half the world’ into something a Tory would be able to make seem like a good thing. It might be the reality of the situation but they couldn’t even take criticism when ‘save Christmas’ went down the pan, there’s no way they’re going to willingly acknowledge that there’s nothing they can do to stop the spread of covid in schools and that will have an impact regardless of what they say.

The government isn’t in charge here, covid and a large unvaccinated portion (children) of the population is.

Ah, I just saw a clip of Rishi Sunak on Newsnight last night - he said this:

"We can't control the spread of the virus. The virus is doing what it's doing, and we have to react to that"

There is it... they are 'sort of' saying it. Even if it's just to the small Newsnight audience.

The reality is we've done everything we can to slow the spread and protect the vulnerable. We have to just get on with life now - it's sad but it's true, humanity has been defeated by nature

Throughout this whole pandemic their inability to deliver unpopular news has been achingly obvious.

Communication has been piss poor. Like, really piss poor. All the graphics even - unless they were aiming for a lot of mickey taking of course.

So leafy greens, your confident in the vaccine, but disagree with the governments approach to suppression? I'm still confused.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Why will more children get sick now than before?

In school.
More transmissable variant (see July for examples)
No small/contained bubbles anymore.
No isolation of close contacts.
No notification to parents of cases in school.
No need for family members to isolate in an infected household.
No mitigation measures outside of school.
No mask wearing anywhere - public transport to school for eg.
More parents back at work places.

There are more.

So yes more children will catch it. But I'm not sure it will necessarily lead to disruption in education on the scale we've seen. Won't a fair percentage of those infections go undetected? If a child has symptoms or a positive test, does only that child go off school? If bubbles are no longer a thing or close contacts isolating it wouldn't necessarily have the knock on effect it used to.

As you can probably tell I'm not sure what the rules will be for children come September, so I stand to be corrected.

Of course if a child passes it to a teacher, that teacher will be off work and then there could be serious disruption i suppose depending on how much that happens.

@Peteycat

Why are you talking about booster vaccs like its normal? They said two jabs, all sweet. It's not though is it?

Another doom mongering thread....

The goverment have ordered 35 million new Pfizer vaccines for delivery in the se and half of next year. www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-58302485 What are they for if not a booster program

Apparently it's fine in London... we'll course it is, we're predominantly working from home until the schools go back, once they go back, we go back snd it'll be an infection for us on the tubes/trains and in offices

I think you are right rule.

Children will catch Covid. For most of them they will feel mildly ill or possibly no symptoms at all.
Some double jabbed adults will catch it. They shouldn’t get very ill but they will need time off work.

I think we are likely to see lots of staff shortages in autumn. NHS, schools, factories, hospitality etc

It’s not catastrophic but is likely to be a bit rubbish.

@marieantoinehairnet

Apparently it's fine in London... we'll course it is, we're predominantly working from home until the schools go back, once they go back, we go back snd it'll be an infection for us on the tubes/trains and in offices

I've been in London two days a week all summer and it's pretty busy on tubes, trains, shops etc

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Ah, I just saw a clip of Rishi Sunak on Newsnight last night - he said this:

"We can't control the spread of the virus. The virus is doing what it's doing, and we have to react to that"

There is it... they are 'sort of' saying it. Even if it's just to the small Newsnight audience.

It’s very woolly though isn’t it? Just looking on here and speaking to people irl I don’t think many are consciously preparing themselves for what reactions the government may have to take. I think most have an inkling in the back of their mind that we’re still on thin ice but it’s certainly not been widely acknowledged publicly.

Israel have certainly released some interesting data on the pfizer vaccine but we’re not on a certain trajectory with that just yet, we had a different dosing regime, used a lot of AZ and have more saturation with delta infections (which could provide a stronger immune response with vaccination). It’s still very much a ‘gotta live it to know for certain’ kind of situation.

It’s not catastrophic but is likely to be a bit rubbish.

Yes, I think I'm using the word 'carnage' too freely. Am mostly thinking about my work load being carnage to be honest. Children who have to isolate with a positive test, but aren't actually ill will require remote learning, and that's a load of crap to organise when you're also teaching the rest of the class all day.

@Nojobforoldmums

“The plan definitely appears to be let it gently rip through the population. “

Yup, it’s a bit “you’ve had your chance to get vaccinated, if you haven’t been vaccinated tou’ll have to achieve immunity by infection”

@Peteycat

So leafy greens, your confident in the vaccine, but disagree with the governments approach to suppression? I'm still confused.

Why though?

The vaccines were developed by scientists and went through all standard testing. As such as I'm happy to take it and confident in safety and efficacy. It's not like the government and policy makers cooked it up in No 10.

In contrast, the governments choices in suppression policies are often informed by politics and public opinion, they are not evidenced based. They've made some very poor choices in regarding control of coronavirus.

They're two completely separate things?

I think we are likely to see lots of staff shortages in autumn. NHS, schools, factories, hospitality etc

Almost certainly. My prediction way back in spring was that they'd say 'if you're positive but not actually 'ill', then you can be in work'. I mean, staff in those industries would go to work a bit ill if it wasn't covid. So I suppose they've gone one step further than that towards decency by asking a positive case to stay home. For now anyway!

@Peteycat

Oh I won't scroll on by, because I'm here to speak up for people who are tired of the behaviour that is displayed on these threads.

Were you elected to the role of spokesperson or is this a self appointed crusade?

Your tired of people talking about things in a way you don’t like? There’s a word for that….

But I'm not sure it will necessarily lead to disruption in education on the scale we've seen

Hopefully it won’t be anything like the last academic year. Trouble is plenty of people are catching Covid even if they’ve been double jabbed.
The ones I know haven’t been very ill. But they’ve felt rubbish for a good week and have been unable to work that week.

It might be hard to staff some schools of the teachers are catching it from the kids.

Other industries might be affected too, but hopefully no where near as bad as we’ve seen already this year.

@Peteycat

Er I seem to remember lots of things being said, like jab the older generation, but then it trickled and trickled down the generations. Please don't say that wasn't said it was. Now look, they want to vaccinate healthy children.

Er I seem to remember that the situation changed as each new variant arrived. It didn't so much trickle down the generations as it became more necessary for them to be vaccinated against the more robust variants.

Now look, they are considering vaccinating healthy kids, as they do for many other diseases.

Please don't pretend anyone ever said that the first reaction was ever going to be the only one, because we have been told for 18 months now that this is real time, mainly reactive and impossible to guarantee that any modelling or planning will be effective enough without continual tweaks, monitoring and readiness for change.

Hopefully it won’t be anything like the last academic year.

I'm expecting September and October to be a bit like July. Ie, some schools will see no cases at all, others will be closing due to lack of staff. Complete inequality for children in terms of provision, especially those in exam years again.

Other industries might be affected too,

We'll probably get to see the real impact of Brexit, rather than those impacts hiding behind the pingdemic!

So leafy greens, your confident in the vaccine, but disagree with the governments approach to suppression? I'm still confused.

Vaccine - validated by scientific research and expertise.

Government approach - heavily criticised by those with scientific expertise.

What is confusing?

(Apologies for butting in lg!)

Scotland records highest-ever daily COVID cases - but no circuit breaker lockdown planned

Just seen that headline - Sky. There you go - it's government policy to let cases go nuts. Wonder if now a higher percentage than 60% of the population will work out the implications for work and school and visiting older relatives in care homes.

I hear what you're saying OP. It feels like everyone is kind of sticking their head in the sand and not thinking about what's coming, basically no one wants things to get bad again so let's just assume they won't. But that's not how it works with a virus.

Schools and universities are reopening, offices are reopening, there are no real restrictions or requirements to isolate, and it looks like maybe vaccine effectiveness will be decreasing now. That is not doom-mongering, that is just what's happening.

I'm an academic, my son is in secondary school, I expect both of us will have a lot of disruption this autumn, but I really hope I'm wrong.

Boosters are definitely going ahead aren't they? We're gearing up for it in the NHS Trust i work in. I thought that was a certainty.

I don't think it's a certainty officially from a gov perspective, but it is from an NHS perspective. As far as I can tell, but I might be wrong.