Will you be angry if we end up back in lockdown?

[turnshavetabled]

/ harsh restrictions?

I feel so tired of this all - but mostly tired of feeling lied to by the government. The false promises - 'irreversible' 'final lockdown until science / the vaccines can save the day'

And Scotland are already floating more restrictions, only a few weeks after reopening. It's gutting. I wish they would just tell us what the probably already know is likely to happen over the next few months.

I'd be fucking livid.

The lockdown would be necessary if people were fuckwits about infection control and vaccinations.

Having seen the muppetry of the general public before, during and after the lockdowns, I just know it's not just possible, but more than likely.

@NCBlossom

Isn’t the way to go… Slow and cautious. With mitigation’s. By that I mean, not sanitising chairs - but what we know really works which is masks, ventilation plus vaccines.

And the way it’s gone is ‘let everything open with little to no mitigations’

It would be much more sensible to still insist on masks on public transport. To make sure schools had CO2 monitors and opened windows (and kids able to wear masks when cases were high, which they are). To still keep up contact tracing. And give good advice about high risk activities which do include indoor dining.

That would significantly decrease transmission without locking down.

I reckon if these mitigations had been in place over the summer then another Lockdown would be out of the question.

But Johnson let it rip and now we don't really have any other option.

@Jourdain11

I'm not so sure not catching off someone can be put down to a mask. My friend and her husband got Covid and so did DS2. DS1 and 3 tested, didn't distance (they were resigned to all getting it!!), didn't wear masks, and never caught Covid. Sometimes it is truly very random

Quite. I know several people who haven't caught it off spouse/partner despite sharing a bed.

@NannyAndJohn that article says twice that another lockdown is extremely unlikely.

@NannyAndJohn any government that used any poll as a basis for policy is not one that I would want

It an interesting question asked isn’t it restrictions (not lockdown) if hospitals are facing significant pressure

What does that mean though? For you Nanny it’s clear you think it’s now but is it? The NHS (and other countries health systems) are always under pressure appointments can always be filled people will always visit A&E what is the question asking.

Most of us faced with that are going to go well presumably those in charge will know when that is so we will say yes.

It is a fairly meaningless question because it is so broad

Lockdown are simply not the answer now - look at Australia once it is bedded in its far to shake

Some measures like NCBlossom sets out plus I think compulsory isolation if a household member has it are sensible. We have relaxed isolation rules too much

Covid is here and it isn’t going anywhere

@turnshavetabled

/ harsh restrictions?

I feel so tired of this all - but mostly tired of feeling lied to by the government. The false promises - 'irreversible' 'final lockdown until science / the vaccines can save the day'

And Scotland are already floating more restrictions, only a few weeks after reopening. It's gutting. I wish they would just tell us what the probably already know is likely to happen over the next few months.

Nope if anything it is necessary. My dad has just spent nearly a month in intensive care, after spending almost the entirety of covid existence indoors and home deliveries, he now needs 3 times a day insulin, constant high intensity steroids and oxygen at home at 45. We opened up far too early too appease the idiots rioting and protesting without a single science gcse between them. Especially their 'leader' Giles Corbyn, who accepted a bribe to avoid talking about AZ, after he protested them.

@XenoBitch

It is all very well saying that your employer needs to facilitate something in order to ensure confidentially.. but that can be impossible for things like small mental health charities.

So what's the solution? As I said before in my case it would be asking DH to leave the house every time I had a call and that's clearly not an option as it's his home as much as mine.

Using the mental health charities as an example, what did they do before lockdown?

The government have no plan. They have closed their eyes and stuck their fingers in their ears.
There is no plan for schools, so I would not be at all surprised if cases, hospitalisations and deaths all increase.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/sep/04/dear-gavin-williamson-now-we-know-what-your-plans-are-for-covid-safe-classrooms-er-um?CMP=ShareAndroidAppOther

@NannyAndJohn 62% want restrictions to be tightened if hospitals are facing significant pressure.

Oh whoops rubbish at pasting.
Define significant pressure- if hospitals were at the point that they had to seriously think about reopening the Nightingales and more seriously getting some staff for them, if bodies were piling up in the streets, then maybe there is a case for lockdown.

But prior to this NHS was over capacity every winter, no one thought that closing the rest of society was a sensible solution.

Hospitalisations are going up, but deaths not so much which suggests people are being hospitalised earlier in the process and treatments are better.

Sure we're not out of the woods yet, but it's not like lockdowns don't create their own problems.

[quote rookiemere]@NannyAndJohn 62% want restrictions to be tightened if hospitals are facing significant pressure.[/quote]
Also, as we've discussed previously, giving a throwaway answer to a pollster doesn't neccessarily reflect people's real attitudes to complex questions.

If the majority want restrictions, then surely they'll restrict themselves? We were told that surveys showed something similar 2 months ago, yet there's not much sign of that in real life, where most people seem to be just getting on with it. Same with masks. These same surveys suggested that 70% wanted to 'keep masks', but I would say significantly less than 70% are still wearing masks now, even though there's nothing stopping them from doing so if they want.

Also, would these people be prepared to pay through their taxes and/or put up with reduced public services to pay for these restrictions they tell pollsters they want? Because that's the real question.

A few months ago I would have answered no to this question. Looking at all the poor choices made lately though, I will be angry if we end up back in lockdown because it will be a direct consequence of the government's decisions.

I am not someone generally opposed to covid restrictions, I still wear a mask, but I think it's unforgivable for the government not to do everything in their power to avoid a lockdown.

@NannyAndJohn

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/september-spike-covid-cases-immunity-uk-6qv2fdqbl

62% want restrictions to be tightened if hospitals are facing significant pressure.

Which they are.

So why the fuck aren't our government doing anything? Johnson prides himself on being a "populist". Now's his opportunity to act like one.

62% of people who took that particular survey. That does not mean 62% of the entire population.

@Picklesthecat

A few months ago I would have answered no to this question. Looking at all the poor choices made lately though, I will be angry if we end up back in lockdown because it will be a direct consequence of the government's decisions.

I am not someone generally opposed to covid restrictions, I still wear a mask, but I think it's unforgivable for the government not to do everything in their power to avoid a lockdown.

Exactly this.

The people who say they won't do it. Presumably you don't have relatives who have been advised by consultants not to leave their homes even after being double vaccinated? I just want to see my son again after 19 months.

62% of people who took that particular survey. That does not mean 62% of the entire population.

It's always worth looking at who carried out the survey, and the numbers participating and how they were selected, i agree.

Reputable polling companies will work very hard to create large, randomised polls that are a representative sample of the population - the parameters for this have been well-established for years in terms of numbers needed.

Others - internet polls, opt-in surveys, small numbers, polls carried out by specific lobby groups or manufacturers - are obviously less reliable.

I cant see the poll in the article linked, because it is behind a paywall. Who did it? IPSOS / MORI, 1500+ respondants, national poll? Or ta Times journalist ringing a few people?

@TheLovelinessOfDemons

The people who say they won't do it. Presumably you don't have relatives who have been advised by consultants not to leave their homes even after being double vaccinated? I just want to see my son again after 19 months.

Sorry to hear that but at this stage I'm not doing any more sacrificing for strangers. If that makes me selfish then I'm selfish. I'm putting the needs of my own family first. Covid isn't going to go away, no matter what we do.

Teenage DD:

"Although the first lockdown was really difficult, in another way it gave me real hope for the future. People worked together. They cared about the public good. They looked for things they could do, and did them freely.

Now I just feel despair."

My mum has COPD and shielded throughout. She was in hospital a few weeks ago and it was 50/50 as to whether she'd pull through. Her lung function is so reduced that any kind of virus could kill her and any attempt at resus would kill her.

Her view now is that she'd be fucked if she misses out on any more time with her family.

(So oddly in my own family, explicitly working for the public good of anonymous - or certainly unrelated - strangers is actually of huge benefit to DD's somewhat fragile mental health, and therefore something for my family's own good.)

@cantkeepawayforever

Teenage DD:

"Although the first lockdown was really difficult, in another way it gave me real hope for the future. People worked together. They cared about the public good. They looked for things they could do, and did them freely.

Now I just feel despair."

That wasn't my experience of lockdown.

It wasn't her experience of the second. It was of the first, despite e.g. inadequate home education for her A-levels, fear and isolation.

@cantkeepawayforever

(So oddly in my own family, explicitly working for the public good of anonymous - or certainly unrelated - strangers is actually of huge benefit to DD's somewhat fragile mental health, and therefore something for my family's own good.)

Did people really care about 'anonymous strangers' though?

Or did they care about a health system which they or their own family use becoming overwhelmed?

There's a limit to what you can ask people to sacrifice for the supposed benefit of 'anonymous strangers'. People didn't suddenly start caring about complete strangers last March, and then stop again a few months later. When it comes down to it, people only really care about themselves and their families. Your own post more or less confirms that.

It's an interesting question - does disinterested charity exist?

When people arrange collections of clothes etc for Afghan refugees, are they helping anonymous strangers (primarily) or making themselves feel good (primarily)?

Would we, as a family, support 'anonymous strangers' if it made us feel terrible? Is it right to say that our help for them is wrong because it has a positive impact on a member of the family as well? Is charity / support only valid if it comes with an equivalent hair shirt for the donor?