Will you be angry if we end up back in lockdown?

[turnshavetabled]

/ harsh restrictions?

I feel so tired of this all - but mostly tired of feeling lied to by the government. The false promises - 'irreversible' 'final lockdown until science / the vaccines can save the day'

And Scotland are already floating more restrictions, only a few weeks after reopening. It's gutting. I wish they would just tell us what the probably already know is likely to happen over the next few months.

why don't you ever answer the question on what you hope to achieve by spending your days on here? What's the end goal?

I reckon she’s just trying to see how far she can push it.

[quote nynynynyny]@NannyAndJohn why don't you ever answer the question on what you hope to achieve by spending your days on here? What's the end goal?

You aren't open to discussions or seeing others view points.[/quote]
You could ask that to anyone.

I'm merely expressing concern about the current situation. But it seems that anyone who refuses to hold the government approved opinion that Covid is over is not welcome here.

But the actual practice of WFH is far less complicated than some are trying to make out

Chances are I know my DH’s difficulties with working from home better than you do. Chances are he doesn’t have the same job as your DS’s mates working from the sofa.
It is a huge struggle for him to do his job effectively from home. And as it’s a job where many people will be quite severely impacted if he gets it wrong (including possibly you), he needs to be able to do it properly. As it is, he’s spent 19 months having to sometimes work overnight so he can do it without distractions.
Are you having to do that, @NannyAndJohn? Are you finding working from home easy? You seem to have so much experience of how easy it is, it must surely be first hand experience?

Just makes me really anxious rather than angry.

I’m a person who really likes to look forward to things and have solid foundations (I realise this is quite common and not special!). I had a bad relationship with exh where he was forever changing plans and cancelling or ruining things “, so I think that makes it worse.

I hate that I can’t look forward to anything that I’ve got booked for winter in case there are further lockdowns.

I've been working at home on a laptop standing in my kitchen since February 2020.

It's not ideal.

But it's undeniable that large numbers of people working from home dramatically reduces contacts, which leads to reduced spread, and helps stave off the next lockdown for longer.

It's a very powerful NPI,

@PrincessNutNuts

After 20 months the world knows which NPIs work.

Everyone knows, surely?

It's anything that reduces our number of contacts to restrict the opportunities for covid to spread, and basic infection control for an airborne pathogen to restrict the opportunities for covid to spread.

Ventilation
Masks
Social distancing
Working from home

Testing
Contact tracing
Isolation of contacts

Whatever level of mitigations we had in place between April 12th and May 18th gave us our lowest numbers all year.

Many of these 'mitigations' are extremely costly and highly disruptive to society. Social distancing, to name but one, means that thousands of businesses, indeed entire sectors of the economy, are financially unviable. Isolation of contacts creates chaos and prevents society and the economy from functioning as normal.

These 'mitigations' may keep 'cases' low, but at a very high cost, and not just financially.

@PrincessNutNuts

I've been working at home on a laptop standing in my kitchen since February 2020.

It's not ideal.

But it's undeniable that large numbers of people working from home dramatically reduces contacts, which leads to reduced spread, and helps stave off the next lockdown for longer.

It's a very powerful NPI,

With a toddler under your feet?

To be fair though it’s a fucking pointless discussion. You can do your job effectively standing at a laptop in the kitchen? Good for you.
Not everyone’s job, not everyone’s home circumstances, not everyone’s equipment requirements are the same. So saying ‘everyone can work from home, they just need a laptop’ is a fucking stupid thing to say, because lots of people don’t ’just need a laptop’ to do their job.
But as long as someone’s DS’s mates can do their job from a laptop on the sofa, everyone can, right?
This place gets madder by the day.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

Just makes me really anxious rather than angry.

I’m a person who really likes to look forward to things and have solid foundations (I realise this is quite common and not special!). I had a bad relationship with exh where he was forever changing plans and cancelling or ruining things “, so I think that makes it worse.

I hate that I can’t look forward to anything that I’ve got booked for winter in case there are further lockdowns.

I feel like that too.

I think I'm the sort of person who needs nice things in the diary to look forward to, and these days we book less, and what we do book may never happen because we're at the mercy of a government in denial about what is necessary in order to "live with covid".

We had three weddings to go to this summer, and I was really looking forward to them. (The second one, especially.)

But we caught covid at the first one and missed the other two.

There's another wedding in the autumn but...

*We had three weddings to go to this summer, and I was really looking forward to them. (The second one, especially.)

But we caught covid at the first one and missed the other two.*

You weren't aware that there was the possibility of catching a highly contagious virus when you made the choice to attend a large gathering?

I'm not sure what your point is.

@FfrothiCoffi

To be fair though it’s a fucking pointless discussion. You can do your job effectively standing at a laptop in the kitchen? Good for you. Not everyone’s job, not everyone’s home circumstances, not everyone’s equipment requirements are the same. So saying ‘everyone can work from home, they just need a laptop’ is a fucking stupid thing to say, because lots of people don’t ’just need a laptop’ to do their job. But as long as someone’s DS’s mates can do their job from a laptop on the sofa, everyone can, right? This place gets madder by the day.

WFH was only ever 'guidance'. If employers and their staff agree that it's working for them, nobody will stop them from continuing with it.

We're well past the point where WFH should be official policy.

[quote nynynynyny]@Thewiseoneincognito here's one

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/02/england-covid-epidemic-has-de-facto-ended-means/[/quote]
You seem angry Nyny, almost as though you’re trying to convince yourself?

The FT published today an interesting article surrounding an extension to the Coronavirus act in anticipation of reintroducing restrictions should they be needed.

www.ft.com/content/967f2266-9a1e-4a8f-ad9e-5cdc535165e0

It’s all very parliamentary and not really of any substance in terms of science but it’s a clear statement that there is some expectation of difficulties this winter.

If we don't comply.. what can they realistically do?

I've been working at home on a laptop standing in my kitchen since February 2020.

It's not ideal.

But it's undeniable that large numbers of people working from home dramatically reduces contacts, which leads to reduced spread, and helps stave off the next lockdown for longer.

With a toddler at your feet?

How about ADHD?

That's not 'not ideal'.

It's fucking torture.

Add in trying to homeschool 2 children, one who can't read and the other who can read but also has ADHD and is dyslexic so can't really write.

I contemplated a lot wether life was worth living tbh. Could not give any less fucks about how many contacts it dramatically reduced.

It's almost like some people are incapable of understanding others have worse problems than a 'deadly' (to others) virus.

Good for you standing in your kitchen though. Is there a reason you don't have chairs in your house?

Is throwing all your chairs away the latest in virtue signalling? Hope you at least wiped them down... wouldn't want to put the landfill guys at risk.

It’s like trying to get blood from a stone.

Come on. What is your end goal? I suspect there isn’t one and it’s ‘mitigations forever.’

Thousands die every month from many causes. That’s life.

The virus is now going to be endemic. Using costly restrictions to try to keep cases low is pointless and damaging.

@NannyAndJohn

Because the NHS is coping fine

No it isn't!

and the death rate is low.

No it isn't!

And you really don't need all mod cons to WFH. Friends of DS are working from the sofa as they don't have room for a desk in their studios. They seem to be coping ok.

Have you any idea what long term working from a sofa will do to your back? Lack of support, for lumbar spine, wrists etc. Lack of the screen being at eye level. Tiny screens leading to squinting.

Employers have a duty of care to their employees to ensure they have a suitable working environment. I'm not seeing many offering to pay for people to upgrade their living accommodation to achieve this.

I have teenage children in my house during my working hours. Should they accept a permanent limitation on what they can do in their OWN HOME? Having friends round, hanging out etc.

"Many of these 'mitigations' are extremely costly and highly disruptive to society."

So are years of repeated lockdowns

The government can control the virus or they can let the virus back them into lockdown after lockdown.

Those are the options.

@PrincessNutNuts

"Many of these 'mitigations' are extremely costly and highly disruptive to society."

So are years of repeated lockdowns

The government can control the virus or they can let the virus back them into lockdown after lockdown.

Those are the options.

There aren't going to be any more lockdowns, let alone 'repeated' ones.

And I get that you're utterly obsessed with 'the government' but they can't 'control the virus'. Nobody can. Nor can they 'let the virus back' because it never went away, nor will it.

The idea that we're in store for 'years of repeated lockdowns' is absurd. When has that happened for any virus, let alone a relatively mild one for which several effective vaccines are available?

The idea that we're in store for 'years of repeated lockdowns' is absurd. When has that happened for any virus, let alone a relatively mild one for which several effective vaccines are available?

^^
I really hope you’re right! I’m not convinced but I hope so.

We are not in store for years of repeated lockdowns. No government official thinks that, no scientists think that. The only people who think that are the trio on here.

We have moved on to the living with the virus stage. Accept it!

Whitty has said it will be 5 years before vaccines can hold the line against Covid variants. Hopefully without lockdowns, but it does remain a possibility.

Even if you don't like the idea.

Also, "living with the virus" means adjusting some of the stuff that we do. For the common good. It appears that most people are doing this.

‘Even if you don’t like the idea’ I’ve heard it all now.

Only on here do a small handful of people love lockdowns.

@herecomesthsun we know how much you like restrictions and mitigations. But you don’t actually come out and say which ones and for how long do you? As you’d need to justify their effectiveness.

Most restrictions have been lifted now. Travel is still a massive pain. But I went abroad this year and last. A bit of mask wearing. Very little social distancing. Do you honestly think a small number of people who carry on to modify their behaviour will have any impact on this virus? I don’t. Modify your behaviour for yourself but most have moved on.

@someusernameorother

If we don't comply.. what can they realistically do?

Well, they can, and do, prosecute businesses and venues that opened in contravention of the laws over the past 18 months, such as hairdressers, pubs, tattoo studios, etc.

Andrew Lloyd Webber was adamant he was going to open his theatre shows, until he realised/was told, that it would be the artists/technicians etc who'd be prosecuted if they worked in a prohibited venue.

Police were attending house parties and handing out fines to those organising them.

But yes, at the lowest level, that's not much "they" can do if you pop into your neighbour's house for a coffee or have a couple of family members over for the weekend, i.e. the small scale stuff.