Will you be angry if we end up back in lockdown?

[turnshavetabled]

/ harsh restrictions?

I feel so tired of this all - but mostly tired of feeling lied to by the government. The false promises - 'irreversible' 'final lockdown until science / the vaccines can save the day'

And Scotland are already floating more restrictions, only a few weeks after reopening. It's gutting. I wish they would just tell us what the probably already know is likely to happen over the next few months.

The thing is even if you complied. The majority wouldn’t. You can’t keep people away from family and friends continually for years. It doesn’t make sense when most are vaccinated. So individual compliance would be for nothing. Because it would need most of the population to comply.

They can shut businesses and pubs and yes we would not be able to go to them. But people would still meet indoors. This is where most of the spread is. You’d hammer the economy and businesses yet again for nothing. The government know this. It won’t happen. The narrative has changed.

You can’t keep people away from family and friends continually for years. This could be part of the thinking around summer easements.

It doesn't mean there will be no restrictions come winter, nice though that would be.

I think we will get a lot closer to the old normal, but we aren't quite there yet.

@louisejxxx

My initial instinct was an immediate “no, I wouldn’t comply” but when I ponder for a little longer, it depends on the circumstances. If it was, say, a snap lockdown every time there was a school holiday for 1-2 weeks, I could probably cope with it. I’m not saying that’s right or that I’d be happy with it because obviously the kids wouldn’t be able to do anything again. But I wouldn’t plunge straight back into the pit of despair.

I wouldn’t be very happy if my life consisted of work (school) and lockdowns whenever I had a holiday. Teachers and school staff deserve some fun too!

I think you have two choices :
a) Encourage (and pay for) mitigation in schools so Covid is less likely to spread there and hence into the community
b) Don’t put mitigation into schools and accept high Covid numbers and more hospitalisation and deaths in the wider community,

Option B may lead to a proper lockdown if the NHS can’t cope.

@herecomesthsun

You can’t keep people away from family and friends continually for years. This could be part of the thinking around summer easements.

It doesn't mean there will be no restrictions come winter, nice though that would be.

I think we will get a lot closer to the old normal, but we aren't quite there yet.

I can't remember the quote but Chris Whitty implied as much.

Or perhaps I just inferred it because he knows better than any of us how our government thinks, and what end result "Let them all catch it" policies will lead to.

He always seems to make a reference to a hard winter to come when voicing support for a reprieve in restrictions.

@user1497207191

Even in "normal" times, some people don't get the treatment they need on the NHS if, say, ICU beds aren't available.

I think we need to start accepting that "some" people with Covid aren't going to get the ICU bed they need, because other people also need NHS treatment, i.e. people needing operations, cancer treatment, etc.

The NHS can't save everyone, it never has been able to, so, perhaps it's time for it to get back to treating other people who need it, even if it means some covid patients don't get saved.

That might seem like a very neat idea to you, but how on earth would you put it into practice?

Are you going to tell people not to bother calling ambulances for people with covid? Kick them out of hospital if they turn out to be positive? Tell paramedics to leave a call if they think it might be covid? Treat covid patients in hospital but then when someone with a heart attack turns up throw them out?

What would your plan be to deal with people turning up at the hospital with family members who are struggling to breathe - get the police or army to keep them out? People would end up trying to steal oxygen. Just think about it for a minute. This was always one of the worst case scenarios if hospitals were overwhelmed by sheer numbers, and we would see the same sort of thing if we decided arbitrarily not to treat covid patients. People would not meekly accept it. Remember these wouldn't be very elderly people in nursing homes not being sent to hospital by agreement with home managers (that sort of rationing already happened in the first wave) - these would be middle aged people with families who can get them there independently.

Even leaving aside the cruelty, it's just not practical.

In lockdown...yes
Back in it ... huh... didn’t do the first one and will still live my life as normal whatever happens
If it’s open, I’ll be in it

@Delatron

Agree *@WindRainSnowSun*

Viruses will do what they always do. No country can defeat it. It’s amazing we have vaccines and treatments will continue to get better.

We’re on to the next stage now. I don’t know why people keep bringing up lockdowns. It’s an emergency strategy to a new virus. Not a long term plan for an endemic one. They don’t even work that well. Just kick the can down the road until you get the vaccines rolled out and they aren’t without huge cost.

And yet, most countries have had far more success at protecting their people from the effects of covid than the U.K. government.

In any given week, by any measure you choose, the U.K. is always in the worst half of the table. Usually in the worst 20 or 25 in the world. Often in the worst 10. Frequently in the worst 5.

I think I'd have more respect for a government that failed to get covid done if they were positive, proactive, "can do," competent, and if they tried.

But our^^ government always has to be forced into action at the point when a lockdown and another 50,000 British people dead is already "baked in."

People seem to be writing as if keeping hospitals functioning is somehow optional for a functioning society. It's really not. I hope there won't ever be another lockdown, but if it's necessary it's got to be one tool in the box.

It can’t be an effective ‘tool in the box’ (did you mean emergency measure?) if very few comply can it? As it won’t work....

@quackinglikeaduck

People seem to be writing as if keeping hospitals functioning is somehow optional for a functioning society. It's really not. I hope there won't ever be another lockdown, but if it's necessary it's got to be one tool in the box.

Since the government are throwing out most of the other tools in the box it makes it more likely that that particular tool will be used.

@Delatron

It can’t be an effective ‘tool in the box’ (did you mean emergency measure?) if very few comply can it? As it won’t work....

People always do comply though, don't they?

People say they won't.

Then they do.

And the lockdown works.

And the lockdown works

Worked. We haven't locked down with Delta, we have no idea if it would work this time. NZ are at 400+ cases now, from a single vector, in a national lockdown with test and trace at full pelt, with 82 new cases today. If we lock down it will be with a far higher case value of one.

Some people won't, a lot will. Madness not to at least have it in reserve. Johnson may be sure that most of us will accept a surprisingly large number of deaths, but I'm not sure most people will accept large numbers of messy, out of control deaths, queues at hospitals and far more people than usual dying at home. Controlled, sanitised deaths happening in hospitals that are still basically functioning, yes - out of control ones, not so much. Of course lockdown still has to be there as a last resort. I don't think there's a high chance will get to that point soon, and obviously I also hope we won't, but we're kidding ourselves if we think that's impossible.

If we do end up back at that point, I will feel some anger towards people who couldn't deal with covid as something to manage, but could only deal with it (or only wanted to deal with it) by ignoring it and pretending it didn't exist. I suspect a fair few of those (especially some politicians) have never been much at risk from covid personally and have always had private health insurance, so don't care too much about normal hospital care being stopped for ordinary people.

@quackinglikeaduck

People seem to be writing as if keeping hospitals functioning is somehow optional for a functioning society. It's really not. I hope there won't ever be another lockdown, but if it's necessary it's got to be one tool in the box.

Investing more money into hospitals would be a better solution, not putting it all on the general public to solve.

@PrincessNutNuts no many wouldn’t comply.

If you tell vaccinated people to not see friends and family. With no long term strategy then I can’t see people complying. It’s not policed. We did it to protect unvaccinated vulnerable family members, to protect the NHS. Now the economy is in tatters and we all know the effects of lockdown.

We’ve moved to the endemic, live with the virus stage. You may need to keep up..

@PrincessNutNuts honestly, you 3 are so boring.

Have a day off. Enjoy your life while you can given that sadly, I'm afraid we'll be back in lockdown from 1st Sep to April 2022 with the deaths baked in. People are crying out for it you know.

What did you do with your life before Covid?

[quote Delatron]@PrincessNutNuts no many wouldn’t comply.

If you tell vaccinated people to not see friends and family. With no long term strategy then I can’t see people complying. It’s not policed. We did it to protect unvaccinated vulnerable family members, to protect the NHS. Now the economy is in tatters and we all know the effects of lockdown.

We’ve moved to the endemic, live with the virus stage. You may need to keep up..[/quote]
Can you link to any reputable source who say covid has become endemic in the U.K.?

Because it hasn't.

The thing is, yes businesses etc will be shut so compliance there won't be optional.

But I will still see my family and friends in their homes, indoors. And I know they feel the same way. So ... Shrug? Will it work?

[quote turnshavetabled]@PrincessNutNuts honestly, you 3 are so boring.

Have a day off. Enjoy your life while you can given that sadly, I'm afraid we'll be back in lockdown from 1st Sep to April 2022 with the deaths baked in. People are crying out for it you know.

What did you do with your life before Covid?[/quote]
Why did you start a thread on the covid board if you weren't interested in the topic?

@PrincessNutNuts I am interested! I'd be angry if any restrictions returned and wanted to see if others felt the same.

What I'm not interested in is the same 3 posters dominating the board day after day after for 18 months with worst case scenarios.

Investing more money into hospitals would be a better solution, not putting it all on the general public to solve.

Absolutely this. Covid has been with us for 18 months now. And still people are banging on about "lockdowns" as though they are a perfectly acceptable strategy to contain it. Where is the effective public health strategy to make people take ownership of their own health and weight, for example? Given that we know that a large proportion of people who end up being seriously ill in hospital are people who are obese. This can't be done with a few adverts showing jolly fat people enjoying their exercise. It needs the government to actually piss off certain industries. And still people are pretending "staying home" and masks in schools will do anything.

And yes those three posters are so predictable they are like parodies of themselves.

@PrincessNutNuts by endemic it means it’s here to stay. You don’t seem to be able to accept that though.

The government have. Hence moving on to the ‘living with Covid’ stage.

The sooner people realise we’re all going to get Covid. Maybe a few times over our lives the better. Hopefully the vaccines will hold up/be tweaked. Boosters for the vulnerable.

By the time our children are older it won’t even be an issue due to the immunity they have built up.

Completely agree about investing in hospitals. There’s a long term strategy. Lockdowns that cost billions aren’t.