Will you be angry if we end up back in lockdown?

[turnshavetabled]

/ harsh restrictions?

I feel so tired of this all - but mostly tired of feeling lied to by the government. The false promises - 'irreversible' 'final lockdown until science / the vaccines can save the day'

And Scotland are already floating more restrictions, only a few weeks after reopening. It's gutting. I wish they would just tell us what the probably already know is likely to happen over the next few months.

I don’t think people will comply- especially those who are jabbed and had the boosters.

Ok maybe some venues might close but I’ll still see friends and family
We are already planning Christmas

Maybe we should break down that unvaccinated group a bit further. How many are in the older age groups? How many are obese? How many are CV? Technically they’re the ones still most likely to end up in hospital so if you’re looking for a ‘fairer’ approach, why not just ‘restrict their civil liberties’ rather than extending it to the whole population?

I don't want to restrict anyone's civil liberties, but if there if, hypothetically, major restrictions were needed, then yes, it should be applied to unvaccinated adults (as those responsible for why restrictions are needed), not the whole population.

Otherwise lockdown is a bit like a teacher who keeps the whole class in over break time because of the actions of a few kids.

There's a big difference between the choice not to be vaccinated, and the lack of choice in being old, frail or CEV.

Having said that I'm no fan of vaccine passports, and things would have to be pretty apocalyptic for me to countenance them... I just they are a lesser evil than a full on lockdown.

“it should be applied to unvaccinated adults (as those responsible for why restrictions are needed)”

More vaccinated over 50s have been hospitalised than unvaccinated over 50s. So I don’t think it’s fair to say that it’s entirely the unvaccinated that are responsible for the strain on the nhs (which is why restrictions would be needed).

@Warhertisuff

Maybe we should break down that unvaccinated group a bit further. How many are in the older age groups? How many are obese? How many are CV? Technically they’re the ones still most likely to end up in hospital so if you’re looking for a ‘fairer’ approach, why not just ‘restrict their civil liberties’ rather than extending it to the whole population?

I don't want to restrict anyone's civil liberties, but if there if, hypothetically, major restrictions were needed, then yes, it should be applied to unvaccinated adults (as those responsible for why restrictions are needed), not the whole population.

Otherwise lockdown is a bit like a teacher who keeps the whole class in over break time because of the actions of a few kids.

There's a big difference between the choice not to be vaccinated, and the lack of choice in being old, frail or CEV.

Having said that I'm no fan of vaccine passports, and things would have to be pretty apocalyptic for me to countenance them... I just they are a lesser evil than a full on lockdown.

I agree

We’ve done all we can though haven’t we? We’ve had a hugely successful vaccination campaign. It’s reduced the strain on the NHS and severe disease/death.

This virus will now just keep circulating and for most it will hopefully be mild. Some people will die unfortunately. Like they do of many other diseases every day.

Where does it end if we keep going back in to lockdown? What’s your end goal if this virus is just now endemic? Keep cases down? Why if it’s not putting a strain in the NHS? We know every time we open up cases sky rocket. We know the huge toll lockdown has on so many other areas in life.

It’s just not a strategy that’s on the table anymore.

More vaccinated over 50s have been hospitalised than unvaccinated over 50s

Where are you getting that stat from?

@Remmy123 @HelloMissus The WW2 comment was sarcastic!

@Delatron

We’ve done all we can though haven’t we? We’ve had a hugely successful vaccination campaign. It’s reduced the strain on the NHS and severe disease/death.

This virus will now just keep circulating and for most it will hopefully be mild. Some people will die unfortunately. Like they do of many other diseases every day.

Where does it end if we keep going back in to lockdown? What’s your end goal if this virus is just now endemic? Keep cases down? Why if it’s not putting a strain in the NHS? We know every time we open up cases sky rocket. We know the huge toll lockdown has on so many other areas in life.

It’s just not a strategy that’s on the table anymore.

I do sometimes wonder if we're (humans) attempting a King Canute here. Viruses will spread and mutate. They will kill some people but they are a force of nature. I think we are quite arrogant to think we can stop the spread completely, and to think we can defy death. I'm not totally heartless and I am very impressed with the scientists and the vaccines, and with the international efforts to hold back the tide. Also I salute the health workers who are doing their utmost to look after people and save their lives. I'm just not sure we have the power to make it all go away. In general we are living healthier lives than ever before, but ultimately we are still animals and cannot control everything, however much we want to.

@Jourdain11

Stay the fuck at home and watch Netflix.

What would our grandparents, who lived through, a war think?

I could weep.

No wonder people won’t comply when people get the message wrong like this. It’s stay the fuck home. No need for the “at”.

Seriously 18 months in how are people not getting this?

@bumbleymummy

“it should be applied to unvaccinated adults (as those responsible for why restrictions are needed)”

More vaccinated over 50s have been hospitalised than unvaccinated over 50s. So I don’t think it’s fair to say that it’s entirely the unvaccinated that are responsible for the strain on the nhs (which is why restrictions would be needed).

Reminder of why a higher percentage of vaccinated people in one age group being hospitalised does not mean the vaccinated are putting more strain on the NHS than the unvaccinated. Quite the opposite.

The over 50s are more than 90% vaccinated.

So the number of unvaccinated who are presenting in hospital are massively over represented. There may be more vaccinated in hospital (dunno if this is true as ive not checked) than unvaccinated in hospital.

The group who are over represented in hospital, when there is something easy that could be done, without affecting others, to reduce that risk are the group putting strain on the NHS.

Vaccines are working precisely because we'd be in a much bigger mess right now, if less people weren't vaccinated. More people in hospital who are vaccinated than unvaccinated does not necessarily show a failure of vaccinations nor poor social behaviour. It could just be poor luck. The unvaccinated, in most cases, aren't just being unlucky - they've made an active decision not to take up that layer of protection.

@SlipperyDippery they were being sarcastic. They are all classic dramatic lines trotted out every now and then!

@SlipperyDippery oh god, you were being sarcastic too. Hides in humiliation

I am not convinced there will be any more in England. Boris and co clearly going for herd immunity (IMO) but using vaccines to reduce deaths from that approach.

Ie they want lots of people to catch it multiple times to develop a strong immune protection - now that vaccines reduce death rates.

Agree @WindRainSnowSun

Viruses will do what they always do. No country can defeat it. It’s amazing we have vaccines and treatments will continue to get better.

We’re on to the next stage now. I don’t know why people keep bringing up lockdowns. It’s an emergency strategy to a new virus. Not a long term plan for an endemic one. They don’t even work that well. Just kick the can down the road until you get the vaccines rolled out and they aren’t without huge cost.

Re: stay the fuck home and watch Netflix posters...

... Can we talk about which groups cases are rising in and how England is going to mitigate rising cases in the next couple of weeks by staying the fuck home and watching Netflix and ponder why whether staying the fuck home and watching Netflix may not be a particularly successful strategy based on the pattern in Scotland?

Clue: I'm not convinced that many parents will be thrilled at their kids watching netflix rather than going to school, college or university.

We know that case rises have been in the young unvacinated age groups and its expected to be a problem going into September. At the moment we aren't seeing any real secondary spikes in older age groups although large numbers of cases in younger age groups will drive case numbers generally.

We know that certain events with large crowds congregating have lead to large spikes (boardmasters and the euros) but this isn't all large events which are causing noticable spikes either. So an element of luck is at play too.

I think its too easy to tell people to stay home. There's reports of how the very youngest children have had their social development slowed, of how domestic abuse is higher and how single people have particularly struggled with their mental health (and its not just single people - homeworkers have suffered from lack of contact) because they've stayed the fuck home and watched netflix.

We are past the point where the argument of staying home and watching netfix is really terribly useful. Yes reduce some contact, but also acknowledge its unhealthy to stay home and watch netflix (if only because of the lack of exercise and weight gain that causes which makes you more vulnerable to covid in its own right not to mention other health conditions).

I will adhere to restrictions in the future if they are reintroduced in a crisis - but it has to be a crisis point. And we can't be doing it every year.

I do think this year will be an outlier and things will improve next year but will continue to be difficult over winter months (in part because nhs was under staffed and resourced over winter anyway pre pandemic).

Staying at home is only useful to a point and has side effects we need to keep acknowledging rather than brushing up the table.

No wonder people won’t comply when people get the message wrong like this. It’s stay the fuck home. No need for the “at”

@DoubleEx

More vaccinated over 50s have been hospitalised than unvaccinated over 50s

Where are you getting that stat from?

PHE

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1005517/Technical_Briefing_19.pdf

@RedToothBrush I don’t need the reminder, thanks. I’m not saying that the vaccines are ‘failing’. I’m just pointing out that there are still a lot of vaccinated putting strain on the nhs so it’s unfair to blame it all on the unvaccinated in general. And, as I pointed out in a pp, there are other conditions that increase the likelihood of being hospitalised, eg. Obesity, so why focus specifically on unvaccinated people and only put restrictions on them? Particularly when some of those unvaccinated could be immune anyway.

I’m still reeling from the ‘lockdown was great for women’ comment from a few days ago

Yes that one was particularly disgusting and utterly tone-deaf.

Well, I don't think lockdown was great, for many women. Or children.

That is one reason why we could do with more mitigations in schools and vaccinations for 12-152.

sorry 15s,

[quote bumbleymummy]@RedToothBrush I don’t need the reminder, thanks. I’m not saying that the vaccines are ‘failing’. I’m just pointing out that there are still a lot of vaccinated putting strain on the nhs so it’s unfair to blame it all on the unvaccinated in general. And, as I pointed out in a pp, there are other conditions that increase the likelihood of being hospitalised, eg. Obesity, so why focus specifically on unvaccinated people and only put restrictions on them? Particularly when some of those unvaccinated could be immune anyway.[/quote]
You might not need reminding but your post could be interpreted differently and its important to stress its disportionately unvaccinated who are 'straining the nhs' for other people who might read your comments.

My initial instinct was an immediate “no, I wouldn’t comply” but when I ponder for a little longer, it depends on the circumstances. If it was, say, a snap lockdown every time there was a school holiday for 1-2 weeks, I could probably cope with it. I’m not saying that’s right or that I’d be happy with it because obviously the kids wouldn’t be able to do anything again. But I wouldn’t plunge straight back into the pit of despair.