Will you be angry if we end up back in lockdown?

[turnshavetabled]

/ harsh restrictions?

I feel so tired of this all - but mostly tired of feeling lied to by the government. The false promises - 'irreversible' 'final lockdown until science / the vaccines can save the day'

And Scotland are already floating more restrictions, only a few weeks after reopening. It's gutting. I wish they would just tell us what the probably already know is likely to happen over the next few months.

Stay the fuck at home and watch Netflix.

What would our grandparents, who lived through, a war think?

I could weep.

Yes and i wont follow any the rules. apart from things that are closed etc.

Genuine question: were there to be another lockdown, do you businesses would comply if they knew that it meant going under? Or would some say screw this and open up anyway?

I really wonder.

@MedSchoolRat

The R0 depends on how naive (susceptible) the population is and how much they interact.

R0 goes down if everyone has effective vaccine and keeps social contacts down (coMix)
R0 = 7 is not our current situation, with Delta but >85% of eligible vaccinated & social contacts still down compared to this time last year (coMix study).

Basic epidemiology.
Plus transmission was never what mattered, what mattered is severe illness.

Have you seen the numbers from North Lanarkshire?

They have gone from 200 cases a day last Friday to over 700 cases today
And it’s not as if they have low prior immunity either, last year they were hit badly in both April and November.

If this keeps up surely it will spread to those for whom it can cause severe illness?

@Jourdain11

Genuine question: were there to be another lockdown, do you businesses would comply if they knew that it meant going under? Or would some say screw this and open up anyway?

I really wonder.

Some small, independent shop said that last time and got a 40k fine.

@PrincessNutNuts agreed the numbers in Scotland ( where I live ) are scarily high. However all adults should now have been offered two vaccines and as you say a lot of people have had it already. It's frustrating that infection rates are still so high, but at this point what alternative is there?
Lockdowns just stall the inevitable and kill the economy and people's mental health and sometimes physical health in the process.

I expect they’ll hold off for as long as possible before making any moves simply because the public won’t accept it without seeing how bad the situation could become for themselves. I can see the tabloids crying out for lockdown when the shit hits the fan, once that starts we’ll see a response.

Just how bad it will get remains to be seen, keep an eye out for the threads on MN because once you start to see ‘Pro lockdown’ ones that’s when the tide will have turned.

[quote rookiemere]@PrincessNutNuts agreed the numbers in Scotland ( where I live ) are scarily high. However all adults should now have been offered two vaccines and as you say a lot of people have had it already. It's frustrating that infection rates are still so high, but at this point what alternative is there?
Lockdowns just stall the inevitable and kill the economy and people's mental health and sometimes physical health in the process. [/quote]
In 2020 we opened up fully on August 1st and it took until mid-October (11 weeks) to reach the numbers in hospital, on mechanical ventilation and daily admissions that we have right now.

And we've almost reached mid-October 2020 levels of deaths too.

And it's only been 5 weeks since July 19th.

Taking every possible protection away from the British people and letting covid spread completely unrestricted is not going to be the "return to normal" lots of people seem to think it's going to be.

The alternative of course is to protect the British people with a proactive and effective covid strategy.

Not a defeatist shrug.

@PrincessNutNuts we never opened up fully in summer 2020. No where near. It was rule of 6, 30 at weddings, nightclubs closed.

@Thewiseoneincognito no one has ever (except you and Nanny and I'm not convinced you're two different people given the tone and expressions you use) been 'crying out' for a lockdown. Christ. Get a fucking grip.

[quote turnshavetabled]@PrincessNutNuts we never opened up fully in summer 2020. No where near. It was rule of 6, 30 at weddings, nightclubs closed.[/quote]
I expect that's part of why it took 11 weeks for the hospital admissions to get to the point we're at after only 5.

[quote turnshavetabled]@Thewiseoneincognito no one has ever (except you and Nanny and I'm not convinced you're two different people given the tone and expressions you use) been 'crying out' for a lockdown. Christ. Get a fucking grip.[/quote]
Clearly hit a nerve there didn’t I.

I can assure you Nanny and I are two separate people, surely a MN mod can confirm this? We share similar views on Covid and I think Nanny would agree it wouldn’t be a shock should we end up back in lockdown or hard restrictions at some point this winter.

I genuinely hope we avoid a lockdown and that the numbers stay manageable and immunity wane doesn’t become a significant issue.

@Thewiseoneincognito you both use very sensationalist language. It's all very Daily Mail headline. It winds people up but I assume that's the intention.

Surely no one wants lockdowns or restrictions and no one in their right mind would be 'crying out' for them.

[quote turnshavetabled]@Thewiseoneincognito you both use very sensationalist language. It's all very Daily Mail headline. It winds people up but I assume that's the intention.

Surely no one wants lockdowns or restrictions and no one in their right mind would be 'crying out' for them.

[/quote]
I’m not saying anyone does want them, my point was simply things potentially could become very difficult to such a degree that some of the public will start wanting restrictions to provide a sense of security.

We don’t know what winter with Delta looks like, as things stand right now we are heading into autumn with no mitigation’s in place simply ‘hoping’ for the best that we can manage with vaccines.

[quote turnshavetabled]@Thewiseoneincognito you both use very sensationalist language. It's all very Daily Mail headline. It winds people up but I assume that's the intention.

Surely no one wants lockdowns or restrictions and no one in their right mind would be 'crying out' for them.

[/quote]
No one wants lockdowns or restrictions, but there has usually comes a point when the hospitals are sounding the alarm, and the deaths are multiplying, when a lockdown is the only thing left that will help.

We shouldn't let it get to that point.

But we have done.

Three times already.

And we the people do usually realise we're there again before the government take action.

As an ICU nurse, no

Our separate covid ICU has reopened

We are all filled with fear of what’s to come. The last wave was particularly brutal.

I however have felt anxious since the complete lifting of restrictions and mask wearing / social distancing, and was told by four people on a busy train in England I didn’t need to wear a mask. When I no longer see patients dying proned and on ventilators I will stop mask wearing and social distancing.

However I do not want lockdown as that was so bad for people’s mental health. It’s just the complete lifting of restrictions I don’t agree with

Yes, I wondered if the govt had lost the plot when they lifted restrictions so extensively and allowed big events as an ‘experiment’. I think though they wanted to please the majority who were crying out for restrictions to be lifted. I thought Boris’s “irreversible” comments would come back to haunt him when he made them and I think it’s increasingly likely they will as this unfolds.

I think you have hit on a very valid point @Thewiseoneincognito about restrictions offering a sense of security because I think that is now what they do offer alongside a sense of we are doing something, we are fighting this we are trying to stop this there is something we can do

But it’s a virus who is now so transmissible that our main defence ironically to it is immunity

I don't think there'll be another lockdown... but if there was, yes, I'd be angry... but the focus of my anger would be on those who had refused to be vaccinated, as it is very likely that it is that group that would be disproportionately filling hospitals and overwhelming the NHS, and therefore the main reason such measures were deemed necessary.

If that were the case, then it surely would
be more appropriate to restrict civil liberties to those who haven't been jabbed than to extend it to the whole population.

I'm really no great fan of Vaccine passports but, if push came to shove, they would be a preferable and fairer approach to any crisis than another lockdown.

Relived atm I think. I really don't want schools to close and would rather lose everything else before that happened. As an NHS worker in an acute setting it's obvious to me the way things are going. Numbers are going up ,outbreaks on wards are happening again, staff are off / left, and we basically have no beds. We aren't coping and it's only august.

Good to hear voices from the frontline in hospitals (as well as schools and universities etc).

@Jourdain11 that was a world war!!!! Totally different scenarios that cannot be compared and winds me up so much that people do.

Lockdown wouid feck the economy up further and we will alll be in the shit and so will our kids for many many years to come.

@Warhertisuff

I don't think there'll be another lockdown... but if there was, yes, I'd be angry... but the focus of my anger would be on those who had refused to be vaccinated, as it is very likely that it is that group that would be disproportionately filling hospitals and overwhelming the NHS, and therefore the main reason such measures were deemed necessary.

If that were the case, then it surely would
be more appropriate to restrict civil liberties to those who haven't been jabbed than to extend it to the whole population.

I'm really no great fan of Vaccine passports but, if push came to shove, they would be a preferable and fairer approach to any crisis than another lockdown.

Maybe we should break down that unvaccinated group a bit further. How many are in the older age groups? How many are obese? How many are CV? Technically they’re the ones still most likely to end up in hospital so if you’re looking for a ‘fairer’ approach, why not just ‘restrict their civil liberties’ rather than extending it to the whole population?

Comparisons with WW2 make me chuckle.
There was not perfect compliance or agreement then as to how to defeat the enemy.
The people of this country did not just do as they were told without complaint.
Black out had to be enforced.
Originally Londoners were told to stay at home during air raids and underground stations were locked. The people broke down the entrances in am act of mass disobedience (forcing the government to back track).
The majority of families being urged to send their children away, did not do so.
Etc etc