Why is natural immunity ignored?

[SoOvethis]

I have seen several posts where people seem to think there is practically no protection from having caught Covid naturally and keep wondering why. But I think the reason is because there is never anything positive in the media about catching COVID naturally and low reinfection rates. I happened to come across an article today which I found surprising as that pointed out some statistics that show how unlikely you are to catch Covid twice.
That matches my real world experience too, I don’t know of anyone who has had confirmed Covid twice. And everyone that I now know who have caught recently are double jabbed but haven’t had covid naturally before.
If someone can prove that they had covid before or that they still have antibodies why can’t that be considered as “safe” as having the vaccinations? Especially as apparently the viral load is lower in those who have been reinfected.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/phe-upgrade-delta-variants-risk-level-due-to-reinfection-risk

This headline is totally misleading to what the article is actually telling you!

“ In light of the findings, PHE upgraded its risk assessment on “immunity after natural infection” from amber to red for the Delta variant. Reinfections remain a rarity though, accounting for only 1.2% of the 83,197 cases analysed.”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9834687/Proof-Covid-turning-mild-illness-Survivors-reinfected-lower-viral-loads.html

“ Last April, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) began examining people who had been struck down with Covid to determine the risk of them catching it again.

Of the 19,470 people they studied between April 2020 and July 2021, 195 went on to catch Covid for a second time.

This equated to just one per cent of people being reinfected. ”

“ Only a quarter of those participants who were reinfected had a high viral load — considered to be a score below 30.”

“ The finding was based on real-world analysis of the third wave in England and looked at about 80,000 Delta cases.

But even with the increased risk posed by the mutant strain, the numbers of Britons getting reinfected still remains low.

Of the Delta cases PHE analysed over the past three months, just 1.2 per cent were identified as possible reinfections.”

(Possibly reinfection btw…interesting choice of word)

Yeah I read that report and it’s flaws by the five areas of limitation detailed in the report. Anyone that receives a cough in the face by an infected person will get reinfected whether jabbed or not. In addition, PCR tests don’t test for active virus when classifying someone as reinfected. It’s clear the CDC like the NHS are pushing for vaccines. What is important is whether you get sick and whether you infect others so let’s look at that.

The hard evidence detailed in the Cleveland and Israeli reports is backed up by the real life numbers in hospitals around the world which are loaded with vaccinated and unvaccinated people - but almost no naturally immune people on a second infection. In addition the viral loads of the vaccinated are just as high as the unvaccinated but very low in the people who naturally recovered

The one that makes me laugh is where the naturally immune have more antibodies when vaccinated. Of course they do because their immune system is working already. No need to mess it up with man made fixes!

Every day the evidence grows that natural immunity is the best. That said, given the choice I would not want to get it the hard way at my age. We should still let the young catch it though as it’s better for them in the long run as they generally don’t get ill and don’t get long Covid

Chances of catching covid twice is rare. If you had covid mildly the first time and didn't end up in hospital it would be even milder second time round. Makes zero sense to be vaccinated at all if you already had covid. What's the plan for the jabs then? How long immunity do you have with the jab? Will you have to keep getting the jabbed yearly to always have immunity? It's too obvious what's going on here

@Indiatango

Actually no, there is no evidence that natural immunity reduces whereas there is evidence that vaccine immunity reduces dramatically after 6 months which is why boosters are required

I know quite a few people who got covid in 2020 and got covid again with worse symptoms in 2021 when the delta variant came along, so tbh, I think it’s bollocks to claim there is no evidence that natural immunity reduces and, even if it doesn’t reduce, it’s clearly bollocks that immunity to the original version of covid protects fully against the delta variant. Surely the issue with “natural immunity” is that you don’t get a standard dose of a natural infection - you could have had a mild infection with low viral load, or a massive viral load, and actually have zero idea of how your immune system will hold up against subsequent exposure in the long term. It’s easier to measure how the majority of people react to known exposure to a known amount of a vaccine.

The response to you walkaround is that you don’t know people who got it worse the second time because none of the studies support your statement. You are also wrong about natural immune resistance to new variants. Rather than spouting opinion aggressively instead of fact try reading the scientific reports. The largest study in the world is from Israel who are ahead of the vaccine curve and studied carried almost 700,000 people. Their findings are that natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting and the double jabbed are 13 times more likely to get reinfected than the naturally immune.

In short, the naturally immune are less likely to get reinfected, less likely to get ill and less likely to infect others. Scientific FACTS rule snd not your opinion which is anecdotal bollocks.

@Indiatango - the response to you is that my niece is one of those people. She is a real person. She was more ill the 2nd time. Neither time was she seriously ill, but I am 100% certain she was more ill the 2nd time. Real life trumps your lack of experience here, I’m afraid.

[quote Walkaround]@Indiatango - the response to you is that my niece is one of those people. She is a real person. She was more ill the 2nd time. Neither time was she seriously ill, but I am 100% certain she was more ill the 2nd time. Real life trumps your lack of experience here, I’m afraid.[/quote]
A single anecdote proves nothjng more than something is possible. It's like saying my 95 year old nan got Covid and was barely ill at all, so therefore Covid isn't a risk to older people.

In short, I would rather be jabbed and then get a natural infection than listen to people like you, @Indiatango, who can’t accept that sometimes “anecdote” is real, lived experience. That way, I get the benefit of both vaccinated and natural immunity, rather than risking the real thing without any protection. And as covid has not been around for long, you have zero knowledge of the durability of natural immunity in either the average person or any other human being, so stop pretending you, or the research you cling to, knows the answers to everything. I can certainly tell you that my niece was not protected from getting a proven infection twice, worse the second time, with just over a year between.

@Waheristuff - so you want a list of all the people I know?… Of course it is possible to get more ill the 2nd time. It would be sensible for people claiming natural immunity is superior to admit that - it’s not as if it harms the argument that in general, natural immunity is superior, if the real virus hasn’t killed you, made you seriously ill, or caused long term complications in the getting of it. It’s the lack of being able to predict who can get covid “safely” with 100% certainty that makes the vaccine desirable.

[quote Walkaround]@Indiatango - the response to you is that my niece is one of those people. She is a real person. She was more ill the 2nd time. Neither time was she seriously ill, but I am 100% certain she was more ill the 2nd time. Real life trumps your lack of experience here, I’m afraid.[/quote]
The report from PHE found that reinfection is rare and a more severe reinfection case is even rarer.

There are also studies showing that even mild cases result in durable immunity. There isn’t really a ‘standard response’ to the vaccine either. Some people have higher levels of antibodies than others and some people’s immunity wanes faster than others.

“Their findings are that natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting and the double jabbed are 13 times more likely to get reinfected than the naturally immune.” @Indiatango - are you actually claiming that the double jabbed, previously infected are more likely to get reinfected than the previously infected who are not double jabbed? Or are you misusing the word ”reinfected” to mean infected post-vaccination?

@bumbleymummy - “rare” I am happy with. Claiming it doesn’t happen I am not!

you have zero knowledge of the durability of natural immunity in either the average person or any other human being

So far studies are showing 9-12 months in the majority.

@bumbleymummy - and my niece got reinfected after just over a year. Anecdotal evidence the immunity doesn’t last forever.

Immunity via natural infection seems to be longer lasting than vaccine acquired immunity (which seems to be wearing off after less than 6 months).

Also, since naturally acquired immunity produces antibodies against the whole virus (whereas vaccine immunity only produces antibodies against the S-protein) it is much more robust in providing protection against new variants.

As a matter of interest, does the research indicate continued regular exposure maintains immunity to covid at a high level, versus getting covid once, then not being exposed again for over a year? There must be a difference between the two, surely?

the response to you is that my niece is one of those people. She is a real person. She was more ill the 2nd time. Neither time was she seriously ill, but I am 100% certain she was more ill the 2nd time. Real life trumps your lack of experience here, I’m afraid.

This made chuckle. You don’t sound very certain. Thanks for that Walkaround.

My pleasure, pontypridd . It’s a bit much to tell someone it can only possibly be their ill informed opinion that their niece felt more ill the 2nd time she got covid than the first, and that a scientific research paper can prove you and she must be wrong on that one! Of course natural immunity is generally superior, but there’s no need to over-egg the pudding - it simply is not the case that nobody can ever get a natural infection twice and nobody can be more ill the second time (any more than it’s the case that nobody who has been vaccinated can get seriously ill with covid within six months of vaccination). There are no absolute certainties, although if you have a precise vaccination date, that’s the closest you can get to certainty about dosage and timing.

Yes the Kentucky study has been superseded by the Cleveland study and blown out of the water by the Israeli study. Natural immunity is clearly superior as it maintains immune resistance and the vaccines get weaker

Natural immunity plus vaccination is recognised as more superior still, is it not?

Let’s be crystal clear. The largest study in the world that compares natural immunity with double jabbed immunity clearly shows that people with natural immunity are 13 times less likely to get ill on reinfection than those who are double jabbed.

Yes - 13 times less likely despite passing of time and new variants. Just for added reference people who recovered from SARS1 still have string immune defences 18 years later.

Tell by all the anecdotes you like - I will go with the latest hard scientific facts

Let’s be crystal clear - scientific research indicates better immunity after natural infection plus immunisation.

Ie not anecdote , just a fact you want to avoid @Indiatango.

Let’s be crystal clear - scientific research indicates better immunity after natural infection plus immunisation.

Yes and I'm glad it happened the right way round for me. Vaccination has I think protected me from serious illness whilst my current infection is exposing me to delta.

The Cleveland study is clear that adding a vaccination to natural immunity does not increase immune resistance. The Israeli study demonstrates the same conclusion

Good point - vaccine first then Covid is the right way around !!