Why is natural immunity ignored?

[SoOvethis]

I have seen several posts where people seem to think there is practically no protection from having caught Covid naturally and keep wondering why. But I think the reason is because there is never anything positive in the media about catching COVID naturally and low reinfection rates. I happened to come across an article today which I found surprising as that pointed out some statistics that show how unlikely you are to catch Covid twice.
That matches my real world experience too, I don’t know of anyone who has had confirmed Covid twice. And everyone that I now know who have caught recently are double jabbed but haven’t had covid naturally before.
If someone can prove that they had covid before or that they still have antibodies why can’t that be considered as “safe” as having the vaccinations? Especially as apparently the viral load is lower in those who have been reinfected.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/phe-upgrade-delta-variants-risk-level-due-to-reinfection-risk

This headline is totally misleading to what the article is actually telling you!

“ In light of the findings, PHE upgraded its risk assessment on “immunity after natural infection” from amber to red for the Delta variant. Reinfections remain a rarity though, accounting for only 1.2% of the 83,197 cases analysed.”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9834687/Proof-Covid-turning-mild-illness-Survivors-reinfected-lower-viral-loads.html

“ Last April, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) began examining people who had been struck down with Covid to determine the risk of them catching it again.

Of the 19,470 people they studied between April 2020 and July 2021, 195 went on to catch Covid for a second time.

This equated to just one per cent of people being reinfected. ”

“ Only a quarter of those participants who were reinfected had a high viral load — considered to be a score below 30.”

“ The finding was based on real-world analysis of the third wave in England and looked at about 80,000 Delta cases.

But even with the increased risk posed by the mutant strain, the numbers of Britons getting reinfected still remains low.

Of the Delta cases PHE analysed over the past three months, just 1.2 per cent were identified as possible reinfections.”

(Possibly reinfection btw…interesting choice of word)

should read ...those who were not subsequently vaccinated were 2.4x more likely to have a second infection.

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

@Indiatango for my March 2020 covid I became ill very quickly. In the am I was fine but had a tickly throat for a couple of days then suddenly I lost all energy. I had a fever the next morning and a sore theist. I kept shaking and going hot and cold. I couldn’t walk upright I was walking hunched over. I also collapsed when walking once. As I started to feel a bit better I developed a ping pong ball in my throat. I couldn’t swallow because if this or eat and I really struggled to breathe. This was there for a few days. Then I had a minor cough for about 2-3 weeks later but I felt fine.

This time round I started with a tickly cough and was a bit tired and my breathing was a bit more difficult. I only tested myself because My DH started with a cough too.

Do you not think it’s just because the government doesn’t have the data/can’t be arsed to verify who has actually been infected and who hasn’t, so are just taking a blanket approach to the vaccine programme?

Getting bloods done to prove your natural immunity would be expensive and extra faff. Also, loads of people would just go ‘yeah I’m pretty sure I had it in March so I won’t bother’.

@SeeYouInFive

Do you not think it’s just because the government doesn’t have the data/can’t be arsed to verify who has actually been infected and who hasn’t, so are just taking a blanket approach to the vaccine programme?

Getting bloods done to prove your natural immunity would be expensive and extra faff. Also, loads of people would just go ‘yeah I’m pretty sure I had it in March so I won’t bother’.

Could be but if you could prove you have antibodies by paying for your own antibody test, then that should be on your covid passport.

I would like to hear more about immunity from previous infection too. I don't know anyone who has been asked to take part in a study; I offered myself (!) to a friend who worked on testing the AZ vaccine and he said they weren't doing any studies on naturally-acquired immunity ... (that was about six months ago).

I would really, really like to know how many people have died of Covid when they've been infected a second (or third??) time, and what their age/weight/vaccine status/pre-existing health conditions etc were.

@SeeYouInFive. People who have gone through the trauma of Covid deserve to get their bloods done to prove their natural immunity irrespective of cost and extra faff. The reason being is they are the least likely to infect or get ill and the country needs to know who these people are to show growing herd immunity and resistance to variants

[quote XjustagirlX]@Indiatango for my March 2020 covid I became ill very quickly. In the am I was fine but had a tickly throat for a couple of days then suddenly I lost all energy. I had a fever the next morning and a sore theist. I kept shaking and going hot and cold. I couldn’t walk upright I was walking hunched over. I also collapsed when walking once. As I started to feel a bit better I developed a ping pong ball in my throat. I couldn’t swallow because if this or eat and I really struggled to breathe. This was there for a few days. Then I had a minor cough for about 2-3 weeks later but I felt fine.

This time round I started with a tickly cough and was a bit tired and my breathing was a bit more difficult. I only tested myself because My DH started with a cough too.[/quote]
Yep sounds nasty. How long did your illness last the first time compared to this time? Also, what age group are you in? I’m just curious for myself

People who have gone through the trauma of Covid deserve to get their bloods done to prove their natural immunity irrespective of cost and extra faff

I don’t disagree. But that’s what I’m saying, this government would never shell out the extra cost and they’re too lazy and incompetent to deal with the admin of it. Much easier for them to impose a blanket 2 vax programme and not worry about who’s had it or not.

There's nothing fishy about it. The truth is that we just don't know how much (if any) immunity any one person has when they've had Covid. The safest way to ensure everyone has a decent amount of immunity is to get everyone double jabbed. It is a blunt instrument, but we don't have time to check everyone individually.

My sister had Covid middle of last year and was confirmed to have good antibodies through testing earlier this year. She still had 2 vaccines and was happy to do so.

@SeeYouInFive

People who have gone through the trauma of Covid deserve to get their bloods done to prove their natural immunity irrespective of cost and extra faff

I don’t disagree. But that’s what I’m saying, this government would never shell out the extra cost and they’re too lazy and incompetent to deal with the admin of it. Much easier for them to impose a blanket 2 vax programme and not worry about who’s had it or not.

Yes, the government has endless people and money ready and waiting to do this! It isn't laziness - it makes practical common sense to vaccinate everyone as fast as possible.

Apparently the antibodies only last about 6 months from natural covid infection- at least that is what we are being told. I know some EU countries were classing having confirmed covid within the last 6 months as the same status as being vaxxed. Not sure if it's still the case

@SeeYouInFive

Do you not think it’s just because the government doesn’t have the data/can’t be arsed to verify who has actually been infected and who hasn’t, so are just taking a blanket approach to the vaccine programme?

Getting bloods done to prove your natural immunity would be expensive and extra faff. Also, loads of people would just go ‘yeah I’m pretty sure I had it in March so I won’t bother’.

The problem is that just because you had Covid, doesn't mean you now have a natural immunity to it now. Both my Sis and her husband had Covid last year. She still had antibodies this year, he didn't. They both got jabbed.

@Jaxhog. You say. ’The truth is that we just don't know how much (if any) immunity any one person has when they've had Covid. The safest way to ensure everyone has a decent amount of immunity is to get everyone double jabbed. It is a blunt instrument, but we don't have time to check everyone individually.’

The truth is we absolutely do know from hard figures that people who have had Covid are the least likely to be sick and be consuming NHS resources in hospitals.

We absolutely do know they have resistance to Covid including the new variants and not just the A variant achieved by the targeted vaccine. Your opinion on the ‘safest’ is actually the ‘laziest’ way as it ignores individual human rights, it ignores the hard evidence that the antibodies in recovered people is just as good and in many ways better than the jab. So the answer is an emphatic NO ! People who have antibodies snd T cells protection should not get an unnecessary vaccine just because it’s easier to manage

You can travel within the EU with a certificate showing you recently recovered from Covid. My issue with that is that it might encourage some silly people to get Covid deliberately.

I can assure you nobody in their right mind would deliberately get Covid

@Indiatango

I can assure you nobody in their right mind would deliberately get Covid

That might be how you think, but plenty of people did not (and probably still don't) take COVID seriously and fully understand the possible personal and societal consequences of an unnecessary infection. Getting infected deliberately was something many public health experts warned about when considering a COVID pass that included a previous infection back last year.

Here's the gov doc from a couple of months ago:

Depending on the way in which the certificate is acquired, there could be incentives for people to expose themselves to infection in order to gain proof of natural immunity

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/999408/COVID-Status-Certification-Review-Report.pdf

Tbh I don’t see the issue anyway. Every single one of us is going to get it eventually in some shape or form. The virus has demonstrated that whatever a country does it cannot be stopped. If the young and healthy get it on purpose it won’t put a strain on them or the NHS.

The main issue is that the people least likely to be infected are treated worse than the double jabbed who catch it and infect at a much higher rate. There is no logic to this at all.

@Indiatango

I can assure you nobody in their right mind would deliberately get Covid

Why not? Plenty of people think it's 'just a cold' - and it often it. I would never take the risk myself, but plenty would I think.

"Every single one of us is going to get it eventually in some shape or form."

I didn't know that was likely to be true until recently. When I heard it I did wonder why I bother with any avoidance.
There are also people saying it will just become one of the usual colds/flus in future though (like swine flu) so better wait until then and when the hospitals can cope of course.

Fair point !!

@Indiatango I’m 31. The second time I caught covid. I wasn’t really ill in the classic sense. I wasn’t in bed all day. I had a cough which lasted about 2 weeks. And I had maybe two nights where my breathing wasn’t great but it didn’t really affect me that badly. My DH felt really really Ill but it was his first covid ever and he hasn’t been vaccinated yet. I definitely feel like my natural antibodies helped the second covid not affect me as much.

@liveforsummer

Apparently the antibodies only last about 6 months from natural covid infection- at least that is what we are being told. I know some EU countries were classing having confirmed covid within the last 6 months as the same status as being vaxxed. Not sure if it's still the case

Mine have lasted a full year after infection. I think it will vary tremendously between individuals. I do hope as research goes on that naturally-gained immunity will be given more credibility than it currently gets.

Actually no, there is no evidence that natural immunity reduces whereas there is evidence that vaccine immunity reduces dramatically after 6 months which is why boosters are required

Nearly two years on and the evidence is growing daily that naturally gained immune resistance works. It looks like the Govt was wrong to ignore 50 years of scientific evidence and should have pursued natural herd immunity. They bowed to the media and hysterical so called experts

The vaccine is great for reducing the symptoms when you get it but it’s natural immunity that recognises the different variants and kills infected cells the best.

In addition, the Cleveland report is one of many now that say there is no need to vaccinate if you have recovered naturally from Covid

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2

[quote Indiatango]Nearly two years on and the evidence is growing daily that naturally gained immune resistance works. It looks like the Govt was wrong to ignore 50 years of scientific evidence and should have pursued natural herd immunity. They bowed to the media and hysterical so called experts

The vaccine is great for reducing the symptoms when you get it but it’s natural immunity that recognises the different variants and kills infected cells the best.

In addition, the Cleveland report is one of many now that say there is no need to vaccinate if you have recovered naturally from Covid

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v2[/quote]
One pre print is not the full picture though, there is conflicting evidence surrounding this. For example:

The CDC have demonstrated that in a cohort of people with a previous infection, those who were subsequently unvaccinated were 2.4x more likely to get a reinfection, and therefore risk transmitting to others.

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

Although laboratory evidence suggests that antibody responses following COVID-19 vaccination provide better neutralization of some circulating variants than does natural infection (1,2), few real-world epidemiologic studies exist to support the benefit of vaccination for previously infected persons. This report details the findings of a case-control evaluation of the association between vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in Kentucky during May–June 2021 among persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020. Kentucky residents who were not vaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated (odds ratio [OR] = 2.34; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.58–3.47). These findings suggest that among persons with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, full vaccination provides additional protection against reinfection. To reduce their risk of infection, all eligible persons should be offered vaccination, even if they have been previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.