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Covid

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Under 30k cases today

382 replies

TheVampiresWife · 25/07/2021 18:54

And infections falling for the sixth consecutive day.

Excellent news!

Under 30k cases today
OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 28/07/2021 11:50

The plan to let test and trace handle rather than schools seems a very wrong decision to me. A young child won’t remember who they have been close to let alone the concept of time they spent with them.
Bubbles and letting PHE decide was far better, especially for those with vulnerable staff, children or families.

theemperorhasnoclothes · 28/07/2021 12:10

I'm aware of the changes in Sept.

My concern is that schools won't even let parents know if there are positive cases in schools, and of course they won't know if there are children being sent in whilst the rest of their family have covid.

Because that's really relevant information to parents - especially those with clinically vulnerable children.

If I knew there was a positive case in my child's class I'd choose to homeschool for the isolation period both to protect my own child and those vulnerable people who my child has contact with.

Looks like that choice - that ability to exercise 'personal responsibility' - will be taken away. So I won't have the information required to protect my kids from what is a nasty illness even if it doesn't kill or cause long covid, nor will I be able to act responsibly towards others.

To me it seems like the plan is to just kill off the vulnerable and as long as enough of the workforce remains for the disaster capitalists that run the Tories then they are fine with that. Pretty horrifying really.

noblegiraffe · 28/07/2021 12:13

There was a thread started about it that said in the OP 'CEV children will have been vaccinated by September so it will be fine'.

Which is, of course, not true. But I wonder if that will be the assumption.

siestalady · 28/07/2021 12:20

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

The plan to let test and trace handle rather than schools seems a very wrong decision to me. A young child won’t remember who they have been close to let alone the concept of time they spent with them. Bubbles and letting PHE decide was far better, especially for those with vulnerable staff, children or families.
But that's not even what the current plan is though. From Aug 16 if you're under 18 OR double jabbed and have had contact with a positive case, you're not required to isolate unless the PCR you're required to have is positive.

I would hope (and i'm probably naïve!) that schools will notify parents when there is a positive case within a bubble so that you're at least quickly aware you need to get your kids a PCR.

As others have said though - who knows if it will actually happen or not.

TooOldandTired · 28/07/2021 12:40

To me it seems like the plan is to just kill off the vulnerable and as long as enough of the workforce remains for the disaster capitalists that run the Tories then they are fine with that. Pretty horrifying really.

Seriously, just go away with this crap. We have been in lockdown and had restrictions for 18 months. Are we supposed to live like this for the rest of our lives for a small number of people who are vunerable, they had to be a better way to deal with the risk for Covid as it is currently dealt with for all other illnesses. There comes a point where people have to be able to live their lives or the whole thing is pointless.
There is a contingent of people (a large % of them on MN) who (1) never want to leave their house again and for some reason need other people to have the same restrictions or (2)just want any reason to slag off whatever the government does so no matter what it is they will complain.
As for 'Independent' SAGE they are a disgrace. As far a I am aware no other country in the world has an independent version of the body advising the government.
It's just all so pathetic and predictable - not a word when the numbers go down except bullshit about not counting re-infections which is so small it would be lost in the number roundings.

cantkeepawayforever · 28/07/2021 12:47

But that's not even what the current plan is though. From Aug 16 if you're under 18 OR double jabbed and have had contact with a positive case, you're not required to isolate unless the PCR you're required to have is positive.

In the current plan, there is no requirement to have a PCR if you are an identified close contact. You are to be 'requested' or 'recommended' to have a PCR as a close contact.

So in the specific school scenario, if a child is identified as a close contact of another pupil because they had a sleepover together, Test and trace maty identify them as a close contact and will request / suggest that the child has a PCR. However, there is no indication that this will be a legal requirement, and schools cannot request to see any proof of a test or negative test.

cantkeepawayforever · 28/07/2021 12:49

The BBC uses the wording 'encouraged to have a PCR'.

theemperorhasnoclothes · 28/07/2021 12:55

Why is there no investment in ventilation in schools? Why not even this basic risk mitigation. Schools will have more safety measures for fire than for covid.

I'd like ventilation at a minimum in schools because that is the best thing we could do to AVOID further lockdowns

It's disgusting how vulnerable kids are being thrown to the wolves.

What about vulnerable kids and adults who don't respond to the vaccine?

I'm totally disgusted how people are ok with this.

noblegiraffe · 28/07/2021 12:59

What about vulnerable kids who are under 12 who won't be offered the vaccine anyway?

luckylavender · 28/07/2021 13:08

@TooOldandTired - I'm alright Jack

Quartz2208 · 28/07/2021 13:12

There is sadly very little money to invest in schools - the move to Academies and a running down of funding for years means there isnt much to give (much like the NHS).

I dont think anyone is ok with it but there is no clear path out of this, no clear way that actually shows. Quite though how Gavin Williamson still has a job is another matter.

Part of it though is individual schools have different plans. DD for example have had minimal closures throughout (maybe 6 or 7 cases) in an area where other schools have been massively hit. They have been incredibly strict and are continuing to have staggered starts and entry points and each year has its own Zone of rooms.

noblegiraffe · 28/07/2021 13:15

There is sadly very little money to invest in schools

We always hear this. Then in turns out that there is money available for loads of other stuff.

What is actually the case is that there is no desire on the part of the government to give any money to schools and in fact they seem actively opposed to it.

Bizawit · 28/07/2021 13:29

@cantkeepawayforever

Most people I know are already perfectly aware of this, and are happy to send their kids back in September. So would I, if I was in the UK

Most people I know - including the parents of my pupils i have spoken to - are aware of the ending of bubbles, but have no or limited awareness of the fact that no close contacts in school will be identified (as Test and Trace have said they will not attempt to identify close school contacts, only those arising from contact outside school such as sleepovers) and that none will isolate.

The release of the flawed study about regular testing instead of isolation has muddied the water further, as many parents, and others including the BBC, have erroneously concluded that this - rather than zero action at all - is what will replace isolation in September in schools.

The current pre-August 16th policy of testing for identified categories of critical workers has, again, given the mistaken impression that testing will replace isolation post August 16th.

If I outlined the current policy to parents: 'In September, there is absolutely no limit to contact and mixing in schools, including e.g. whole school assemblies, but a family where all other members are actively suffering from Covid can send their child into school to sit next to your child for 6 hours a day', I am not certain that many parents would believe me, let alone be happy to do so.

I think there are lots of parents who are keen to see schools return to normal, including an end to isolations and routine testing. If there aren’t, I wish there were.
Quartz2208 · 28/07/2021 13:42

@noblegiraffe

There is sadly very little money to invest in schools

We always hear this. Then in turns out that there is money available for loads of other stuff.

What is actually the case is that there is no desire on the part of the government to give any money to schools and in fact they seem actively opposed to it.

Ok Schools have very little money to invest. Educational funding has been cut time and time again.

I dont think actually we are disagreeing - just a matter of semantics

cantkeepawayforever · 28/07/2021 13:46

I think there are lots of parents who are keen to see schools return to normal, including an end to isolations and routine testing. If there aren’t, I wish there were.

NOBODY is keener to see schools return to normal than school staff, believe me. I have never met or heard from any teacher anywhere - in RL or on MN - who isn't keen for schools to return to normal, with the possible minor exception of online parents' evenings for secondary, which were a revelation and many would like to keep.

However, there is a difference between being KEEN for schools to return to normal and thinking that it is sensible to do it as is proposed for September - in the same way that Mr Johnson was KEEN for schools to go back as normal in January but had to change his mind after 1 day.

cantkeepawayforever · 28/07/2021 13:52

Part of it though is individual schools have different plans. DD for example have had minimal closures throughout (maybe 6 or 7 cases) in an area where other schools have been massively hit. They have been incredibly strict and are continuing to have staggered starts and entry points and each year has its own Zone of rooms.

I am not entirely sure of the relationship between schools with strict 'Covid theatre' arrangements and those which have had few cases, tbh. There does seem to be a strong relationship between school cases and the cases in the catchment area (not just the town / city, but the immediate area), and a smaller impact of socio-economic profile (though those two factors are often closely related). I have seen schools with incredibly lax arrangements be spared while the most careful and strict schools were ravaged - and vice versa.

2X4B523P · 28/07/2021 13:52

Regarding ventilation I saw this article yesterday which suggests after vaccination good ventilation will do more to help than masks.

inews.co.uk/news/health/face-mask-arguments-plans-better-ventilation-covid-lives-vaccines-1121580

Bizawit · 28/07/2021 13:55

@cantkeepawayforever

I think there are lots of parents who are keen to see schools return to normal, including an end to isolations and routine testing. If there aren’t, I wish there were.

NOBODY is keener to see schools return to normal than school staff, believe me. I have never met or heard from any teacher anywhere - in RL or on MN - who isn't keen for schools to return to normal, with the possible minor exception of online parents' evenings for secondary, which were a revelation and many would like to keep.

However, there is a difference between being KEEN for schools to return to normal and thinking that it is sensible to do it as is proposed for September - in the same way that Mr Johnson was KEEN for schools to go back as normal in January but had to change his mind after 1 day.

Sorry I consider this 'keeness' you describe to be largely academic, if what you are in fact doing is advocating for the extension of these measures.

What I meant by my post was, of course, that many parents desire that come September, there will be no more isolations, no more bubbles and no more routine testing. There are plenty of parents, educators, scientists and policy makers who believe this to be thoroughly sensible. Certainly this is my wish and consider it to be in the best interests of children.,

RedToothBrush · 28/07/2021 14:02

As for 'Independent' SAGE they are a disgrace. As far a I am aware no other country in the world has an independent version of the body advising the government.

You mean a group of scientists who have formed a political lobby group. Yep they are independent but they are not apolitical in any way.

Putting the word independent at the front doesn't change this. We could call Labour - Independent Labour or the LDs, Independent Labour....

Other countries do have lobby groups against government policy on covid though. They just don't pretend they aren't political!

My son's primary had a case in the last week of term after the end of bubbles. School sent all the class and teachers home - they deemed the staff as close contacts so they sent the class home and couldn't safely open. They sent an email to everyone warning and informing anyway. They didn't have to.

cantkeepawayforever · 28/07/2021 14:10

What I meant by my post was, of course, that many parents desire that come September, there will be no more isolations, no more bubbles and no more routine testing. There are plenty of parents, educators, scientists and policy makers who believe this to be thoroughly sensible. Certainly this is my wish and consider it to be in the best interests of children.

As I say, the fact that someone 'desires' something doesn't make it the right option.

It is already known that Delta infects close contacts who have been double vaccinated. It is also known that no CV or CEV under 12s will be vaccinated at all, and that even for the over-12s, a single vaccination is all there will have been time for before September, which is ineffective against Delta.

Even if the vast majority of parents have no interest in the danger to CEV children - and I do not believe that is the case, as there has always been extreme care taken by other children and parents of children who are vulnerable in their classes (both for Covid, and also for e.g. life-threatening allergies) - I do think that many would care if their teacher(s) are absent with Covid for a week-10 days at a time. Equally, many would care if their child brought Covid home with them, through sitting net to someone whose family were all ill, and this made the whole family ill including the elderly relative who lives with them.

i do think that the vast majority of parents will go 'On the one hand, I would love school to be exactly as normal, but on the other hand I can see the risks in that approach so am happy that the school still has some basic arrangements in place', and will be shocked to find that no, there will be no arrangements in place at all unless an individual head is willing to use health and safety law to protect their right to ensure the safety of their staff, pupils and community.

Bizawit · 28/07/2021 14:20

@cantkeepawayforever

What I meant by my post was, of course, that many parents desire that come September, there will be no more isolations, no more bubbles and no more routine testing. There are plenty of parents, educators, scientists and policy makers who believe this to be thoroughly sensible. Certainly this is my wish and consider it to be in the best interests of children.

As I say, the fact that someone 'desires' something doesn't make it the right option.

It is already known that Delta infects close contacts who have been double vaccinated. It is also known that no CV or CEV under 12s will be vaccinated at all, and that even for the over-12s, a single vaccination is all there will have been time for before September, which is ineffective against Delta.

Even if the vast majority of parents have no interest in the danger to CEV children - and I do not believe that is the case, as there has always been extreme care taken by other children and parents of children who are vulnerable in their classes (both for Covid, and also for e.g. life-threatening allergies) - I do think that many would care if their teacher(s) are absent with Covid for a week-10 days at a time. Equally, many would care if their child brought Covid home with them, through sitting net to someone whose family were all ill, and this made the whole family ill including the elderly relative who lives with them.

i do think that the vast majority of parents will go 'On the one hand, I would love school to be exactly as normal, but on the other hand I can see the risks in that approach so am happy that the school still has some basic arrangements in place', and will be shocked to find that no, there will be no arrangements in place at all unless an individual head is willing to use health and safety law to protect their right to ensure the safety of their staff, pupils and community.

Your dissection of my use of language is unhelpful. Stop it please. It is clear what I was trying to say, and the comment I was responding to.

For the avoidance of doubt. I wholeheartedly disagree with your evaluation of risk, and your view that these measures are sensible and necessary to "ensure the safety of staff, pupils and community". I believe (and certainly hope) that there are many other parents (and others) who agree with me.

senoritarita · 28/07/2021 15:48

No schools testing

People due to go away on hols resisting tests

People fed up and no longer testing

TooOldandTired · 28/07/2021 16:04

[quote luckylavender]@TooOldandTired - I'm alright Jack [/quote]
Again more of this hollier than thou crap. Pre-Covid people who were immuno suppressed or had conditions that meant they were at risk took precautions so that they did not get various illnesses. There is no reason this cannot also be the case with Covid now that the majority of adults have been vaccinated and/or exposed to Covid already.
Also I could accuse you of exactly the same i.e. only worrying about yourself - what about the people who have committed suicide because of lockdown or who haven't been able to get NHS treatment for cancer never mind the economy and the number of people out of jobs. Maybe you should look around you instead of just having a narrow focus on Covid.

thecatsatonthewall · 28/07/2021 16:22

As for 'Independent' SAGE they are a disgrace. As far a I am aware no other country in the world has an independent version of the body advising the government

You mean a group of scientists who have formed a political lobby group. Yep they are independent but they are not apolitical in any way

Any more than the official SAGE? GCSA selected, headed by the CMO - who is appointed by the govt of the day.

Anyone ever noticed all these scientific bodies never criticise individual ministers or officials actions, even the PM wouldn't let the CMO and anything specific on the Cummings affair - who took that without a murmour.

CarlaH · 28/07/2021 16:34

@senoritarita

No schools testing

People due to go away on hols resisting tests

People fed up and no longer testing

I worry that this is the case. It makes it hard to know how safe a place is doesn't it.