SAGE adviser says achieving herd immunity by letting cases rise is Govt plan now

[herecomesthsun]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/ministers-letting-young-people-catch-covid-to-prepare-for-winter-sage-adviser-claims

“What we are seeing is a decision by the government to get as many people infected as possible, as quickly as possible [e.g. in nightclubs], while using rhetoric about caution as a way of putting the blame on the public for the consequences,” said Prof Robert West, a health psychologist at University College London who participates in Sage’s behavioural science subgroup.

“It looks like the government judges that the damage to health and healthcare services will be worth the political capital it will gain from this approach,” West said, adding that ministers appear to believe the strategy is now sustainable – unlike last year – because of the vaccine rollout.

I swear to god if some random expert said that wearing a hat would protect you Mountain Warehouse would run out of beanies within a day

Once Whitty failed to criticise Cummings, i then realised he was a political appointee, there to back the Govt.

Which i was surprised about as he did good work on Ebola.

There again perhaps he thinks he can do more good in the tent than outside?

vaccine passports for nightclubs, if needed, should not take 2 months to come in, the horse will have bolted

Perhaps timed for the movement of university students across the country in 2 months time?

Starfro: pls tell me which members of Indie-Sage are 'quacks'

The fact that Whitty said he supports the strategy does not mean he favours it above all other possible strategies that exist. When he says 'best' he means 'of the options available within the parameters set by ministers'. Whitty does not start with a blank sheet of paper.

SAGE was instructed to only model the timing of full unlocking. Full unlocking now was better than full unlocking later.

I wouldn't claim to be especially 'attuned' to Chris Whitty, no.

@TheKeatingFive

It is still foolish to put ourselves in the way of catching it

You’ll have to make some major lifestyle changes to avoid it in the longer term.

Yep. Might be wise to keep some restrictions so people catch it more slowly but everyone, vaccinated or unvaccinated, will catch it eventually. Hopefully many us will feel less sick than with a cold or even asymptomatic. I’ve been double vaccinate and I’m not scared at all.

People who expect the world to cater for their fear of Covid even though they are vaccinated need to wake up to this reality.

Herd immunity is certainly the government plan for kids. I'd be interested to see anyone trying to dispute that.

@lannistunut

The fact that Whitty said he supports the strategy does not mean he favours it above all other possible strategies that exist. When he says 'best' he means 'of the options available within the parameters set by ministers'. Whitty does not start with a blank sheet of paper.

SAGE was instructed to only model the timing of full unlocking. Full unlocking now was better than full unlocking later.

I wouldn't claim to be especially 'attuned' to Chris Whitty, no.

No I can see that. I doubt you listened to his address to MPs.

Just waffling based on assumptions.

The CMO remit is different to modelling requests to SAGE

People who expect the world to cater for their fear of Covid even though they are vaccinated need to wake up to this reality.

I also have no idea why posters are arguing about it not being the strategy for unvaccinated groups. Why is this new news to anyone.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57858864

The UK is "not out of the woods yet" and people should act with caution as Covid restrictions in England end on Monday, Prof Chris Whitty has said.

England's chief medical officer warned that Covid hospitalisations were doubling every three weeks and could hit "scary numbers" in future.

Prof Whitty said the pandemic still had a "long way to run in the UK".

@MarshaBradyo

People who expect the world to cater for their fear of Covid even though they are vaccinated need to wake up to this reality.

I also have no idea why posters are arguing about it not being the strategy for unvaccinated groups. Why is this new news to anyone.

It is folly. So remains remarkable.

It is also not the explicit aim of the government currently, or not being purveyed as such.Also newsworthy on this count.

Johnson and co WANTED herd immunity and were all set to go that way

But we didn't. We locked down, instead. Too late, granted. But lock down we did, before infections spiralled.

@TheVampiresWife

Johnson and co WANTED herd immunity and were all set to go that way

But we didn't. We locked down, instead. Too late, granted. But lock down we did, before infections spiralled.

But the AIM was herd immunity, until they were forced to do otherwise.

True fact.

@herecomesthsun

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57858864

The UK is "not out of the woods yet" and people should act with caution as Covid restrictions in England end on Monday, Prof Chris Whitty has said.

England's chief medical officer warned that Covid hospitalisations were doubling every three weeks and could hit "scary numbers" in future.

Prof Whitty said the pandemic still had a "long way to run in the UK".

Another poster who only chooses the words he says when it suits their view.

Why listen here and not to his actual advice to MPs?

Selective.

Both can exist, and given some shuffling with various guidance on masks pretty much is. He’s also correct that behaviourally we are pretty good and the media pushing his caution message is part of that.

This is what they should have done in the first place.

Too bad they diddled around with lockdowns and other useless measures first.

Pity the vaccine strategy didn’t work out as strongly as we hoped, but at least it still seems to protect those who need it the most.

If he has also said something diametrically different to this then please quote it?

As he has been fairly consistent in advocating caution in the stuff I have seen and read.

It is possible to be very positive about the vaccine roll out, for example and also think we should still be careful about social distancing and masks and I would entirely agree with that.

@UsedUpUsername

This is what they should have done in the first place.

Too bad they diddled around with lockdowns and other useless measures first.

Pity the vaccine strategy didn’t work out as strongly as we hoped, but at least it still seems to protect those who need it the most.

had to ditch herd immunity because of impending disaster "in the first place"

@herecomesthsun

If he has also said something diametrically different to this then please quote it?

As he has been fairly consistent in advocating caution in the stuff I have seen and read.

It is possible to be very positive about the vaccine roll out, for example and also think we should still be careful about social distancing and masks and I would entirely agree with that.

You’d have to listen to address to MPs

Google July 19th Chris Whitty backs it

I get not everyone heard this and it’s causing confusion but he clearly outlined using summer for infection levels so it wouldn’t run into Winter

@herecomesthsun but we didn't try it, whatever BJ and co might have fancied.

Also a true fact.

The strategy has never changed from the start, it's all been about spin. These evil bastards in power should be held to account for the lies.

had to ditch herd immunity because of impending disaster "in the first place

Boris lost his nerve but Sweden did very well out of it (they fucked up with the care homes, but the UK did that too)

The best imho would have been to pursue a more data-driven decision as in Florida, where the vulnerable were protected and everyone else got on with life.

We absolutely know who is most vulnerable, it’s a lie to pretend we don’t.

A lot of Conservatve MPs and supporters use the CMO as cover for the poor policies of the government, but this will not (necessarily) work when the inquiry happens.

I think that is a slightly different issue (without having seen the speech).

So there is this idea of opening up in the summer because otherwise it would be autumn or winter and there would be flu, RSV etc. Flu and covid together are thought to be more lethal.

However, it depends a bit on how you open up.

Before July 19th we had very few restrictions in many respects, anyway.

Allowing people to have weddings and birthday parties, especially when they can do this outdoors in the summer has some point to it.

However, masks remain a good idea indoors, and Whitty famously said he'll continue to wear them.

So I don't think he was suggesting a free for all so that we all have a sort of chickenpox party for covid over the summer.

Rather that if we are going to ease restrictions for a portion of time, summer is better to do this rather than winter.

Whiity has also said that winter is likely to be difficult, and Boris is no longer talking about irreversible easing of restrictions and you can of course make of that what you may.

I think if we are careful over the summer we will be better placed for the difficult autumn and winter.

From what I have seen the scientists were agreeing with that.

@lannistunut

A lot of Conservatve MPs and supporters use the CMO as cover for the poor policies of the government, but this will not (necessarily) work when the inquiry happens.

A shame you are so blinkered by your politics that you would dismiss what the CMO advises.

It’s rife on here though, this high self belief in own view being better than CMO etc, so no surprise.

Unless it’s ‘indie SAGE’ then suddenly listen to the experts. Who are acting like activists.

[quote TheVampiresWife]@herecomesthsun but we didn't try it, whatever BJ and co might have fancied.

Also a true fact.[/quote]
we didn't try it for very long as it collapsed after a week or so