96 dead today...

[Homeontherangeuk]

But Boris knows what he's doing...

3asabird

London is affected, schools here are on their arses with outbreaks, I know like loads of fully vaccinated colleagues who are really sick with Delta and they're not old.

Why does everyone wheel of that old chestnut about London.

Taken here

The combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination creates the conditions in which an immune escape variant is most likely to emerge. The likelihood of this happening is unknown, but such a variant would present a significant risk both in the UK and internationally.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021

Sadly there is a thread running in which people are saying what they like about the pandemic. I’m afraid there is a vocal group of people for whom all this is all very suitable or even quite exciting. Social media allows these weasels to find each other.

No doubt in WW2 some people benefitted. Fil had to leave school at 13 and work in a shoemenders. He joined the navy at 16 and got to travel the world. Young women stuck in East Anglian villages got to meet masses of young airmen/Americans whereas previously they’d have had the choice of George the pigman or John the cowman.

But in those days these people weren’t on the internet slapping each other on the virtual back about how the war suited them just fine whilst others were suffering terribly.

[quote Sugarandtime]@duffeldaisy
No, it’s in a PHE report from the 25th June

It was deaths between 1st February 2021 and 21st June.
There were a lot more unvaccinated admitted to hospital for emergency care but more deaths from vaccinated people.[/quote]
Not surprising, those vaccinated at the start of 2021 were the oldest and most vulnerable. What matters is how many MORE people would have died had it not been for the vaccine.

@Bizawit

But we don’t just put alcohol and cigarettes and cars into the public with no warnings or no risk management

Are you joking? We have thrown almost everything into covid risk management for the last 18 months, and made unprecedented sacrifices in almost every other aspect of life. God knows how much this has cost in economic terms. Meanwhile, We still have vaccines, healthcare (with a variety of treatments now available), test and trace, ongoing isolations, border restrictions, guidance and advice, public health education, all kinds of mitigation measures in specific setting like hospitals.

Covid- fundamentalists will never be satisfied until we sacrifice almost everything that makes life worth living in the name of slightly reducing the impact of this one, general mild, infectious disease.

Well said!

Not surprising, those vaccinated at the start of 2021 were the oldest and most vulnerable

Likewise America. Where almost 100% of the deaths are in the unvaccinated.

@marieantoinehairnet

3asabird

London is affected, schools here are on their arses with outbreaks, I know like loads of fully vaccinated colleagues who are really sick with Delta and they're not old.

Why does everyone wheel of that old chestnut about London.

I agree with this. I also hope we don’t get restrictions

[quote User5827372728]@PurpleDaisies

We could even get a walk in vaccine in primark this weekend!

Struggle to imagine those who want a vaccine haven’t got access to one[/quote]
I am under 40. I am less than 8 weeks from my first vaccination. I got my first as soon as I was able to book an appointment. How exactly can I do that earlier?

No surprise to anyone who understands the concept of exponential growth.

I took a random date.
Dec 11 had 21,622 daily cases. 426 deaths.
We now have over double the cases and only (albeit devastating for the families) 96 deaths. Vaccines are working. However as in all vaccines they are not 100%.

The choice between opening up or keeping us closed is a choice between the Country thriving or going bust.

There will be those who say 'yes but the deaths will need to be measured in 2 weeks or so' but that is not a valid argument because the sources are both measured the same for each date. (Really tired, worded that totally wrong, but I hope you understand.

Do I want lockdown, no, will I be going anywhere without a mask or going clubbing? No! I am scared of my children and DP getting Covid. But I totally get why he has opened.

[quote User5827372728]@PurpleDaisies

We could even get a walk in vaccine in primark this weekend!

Struggle to imagine those who want a vaccine haven’t got access to one[/quote]
how is it a struggle to imagine when only 53% of the population are doubly vaccinated?

I booked mine at first availability, can't get my second until August. Have been to a couple of pop up clinics (including on in primark), but nowhere near me will do it earlier.

@Sugarandtime

I’m getting really concerned that PHE are writing that more people that have been vaccinated, especially with 2 vaccinations have died than unvaccinated.

I know there is probably a good explanation as to why that is but I always thought it would have been the other way around.
It wasn’t something I was expecting to read and it’s really got me worried now.

I'm not sure of the exact figures, but the vaccinated group will be top-heavy with the vulnerable, while the unvaccinated group is a rump of mainly young healthy people. Many who die of flu are vaccinated too, for the same reason. Vaccines help, but they aren't a magic forcefield.

@marieantoinehairnet

3asabird

London is affected, schools here are on their arses with outbreaks, I know like loads of fully vaccinated colleagues who are really sick with Delta and they're not old.

Why does everyone wheel of that old chestnut about London.

We're not allowed to admit the heavy toll on London. Too much money is made there (at the expense of Londoners).

Nearly 20,000 dead Londoners.

It's dense population, many hugely deprivded and vulnerable, overcrowding, 165,000 homeless, undocumented migrants scared to get vaccinated, the lowest vaccine takeup in the UK, Heathrow airport, protests/mass gatherings ten a penny. It's not hard to see what attracts a virus to London. Perfect ease of fast spread.

Wonder why Boris chose to self isolate in his country retreat?

9 million people means case rates per 100,000 will artificially give the impression that London is low risk.

Let's take the north west. High case rates. If 4 million people suddenly moved there, case rates lowered overnight.

The real indicator of risk is likelihood of catching it. That needs to take it into account ease and speed of spread.

Its nearly a year and a half.

Everyone has been offered the vaccine.

You want to stay inside thats fine, but others have lives to rebuild.

Cases are like fishing, until this year, testing was limited and now it is ubiquitous. Thus if you’re fishing a stretch of water with 1000 rods instead of 1 you will catch more fish. It’s not surprising in any way. If the testing had been at this level since last March/consistent throughout, then cases under those circumstances would have a meaningful context. Right now, they simply don’t.

@LemonSwan

Its nearly a year and a half.

Everyone has been offered the vaccine.

You want to stay inside thats fine, but others have lives to rebuild.

Not everyone has had enough time to actually have both vaccines though.

I don’t want to stay inside. I wanted some of the restrictions to stay so we had chance to properly finish the vaccination programme.

@NannyAndJohn

No surprise to anyone who understands the concept of exponential growth.

Actually this isn't about exponential growth but the link between cases and hospitialisations and deaths. I am more surprised you didnt mention the word lag. But yes as the cases grow (although they have had a plateau) so will the others

So even though the link has been weakened and the hospital rate has gone down from 10% I think to 2% and deaths have gone down from 2% to 0.16 as one rises the others will.

We are in a much much better place due to the vaccines but this it to be expected. 0.16% is a small percentage it can still be a large number if the number it is a percentage of is large. If we do reach 250,000 it could be as many as 400 a day again.

But you just need to look at Namibia to see what can happen without

I wanted some of the restrictions to stay so we had chance to properly finish the vaccination programme.

I thought Chris Whitty said delaying for this wouldn’t do much as low risk left

@LemonSwan

Its nearly a year and a half.

Everyone has been offered the vaccine.

You want to stay inside thats fine, but others have lives to rebuild.

I repeat again, many 30 (and 20) year olds, despite booking their jabs at first availability, are not able to get their second until late August or September.

Despite this they are expected to go into work, use public transport etc with no mitigations in place, when cases are rising dramatically

That is exactly the point! That's where proper, full lockdowns, track and trace, financial support for those isolating, investment in air filtration, people wearing masks for each other, etc etc comes in

Improved air filtration aside, which I agree is a desirable long-term plan, most of that would make for a miserable and highly restricted existence. I doubt you’d get much buy-in from a largely double jabbed population at this point.

I’ve written loads of wordy posts on here during the pandemic, but my position on Covid now essentially boils down to what @Blessex said upthread: Shit Happens and the world can be cruel, but we’ve all done our bit and I’m now getting on with living my life in as full and joyful a way as possible.

@LemonSwan

Its nearly a year and a half.

Everyone has been offered the vaccine.

You want to stay inside thats fine, but others have lives to rebuild.

Agree with you, and I’m not vaccinated yet due to a medical condition, but enough is enough

In 2018 there were 27,142 deaths from influenza and pneumonia in England alone. If we accept that covid is going to become part of life, like flu, sadly there will always be some deaths.

Don't worry Marsha
The reason why they want to portray London as unaffected, is to avoid restrictions there. People (from the shires and abroad) make a lot of money out of London and continuing as normal is a priority over the millions of vulnerable Londoners.

Remember the lockdowns each time only happened after it was too late for London's millions of vulnerable. The government happily allowed direct flights from China and Italy into London, let it spread. It was only when other parts of the country were at risk that action was taken. Roadblocks were set up in some areas to keep infected Londoners out. Obviously Londoners weren't afforded the same protection. Hence why London Ambulance Service had to temporarily change it's threshold for admitance to hospital, and why in the winter vulnerable London patients had to be sent across the country because London hospitals were full.

@NannyAndJohn

No surprise to anyone who understands the concept of exponential growth.

You just use the word exponential in every other post you write. Of course it's exponential until cases start to decrease. Exponential is only relevant on the timescale its growing that way. Considering the exponential growth of cases is slowing I'd say that's a positive.

*I repeat again, many 30 (and 20) year olds, despite booking their jabs at first availability, are not able to get their second until late August or September.

Despite this they are expected to go into work, use public transport etc with no mitigations in place, when cases are rising dramatically*

Hate to be blunt but so what. They are not CEV or they would have been double vaxxed. I worked through the whole of this thing in a high risk environment on minimum wage. Like many other essential workers.

Its time for people to get a grip. If they dont want to work - dont. Change jobs etc.