96 dead today...

[Homeontherangeuk]

But Boris knows what he's doing...

@Egghead68

Could you please provide us with an option that doesn't include an exit wave over the winter, doesn't ruin our economy and mental health further

Well one way that would avoid an exit wave would be to get herd immunity (for now at least) through vaccination before opening up. Israel did not have an exit wave. It’s not inevitable.

We are as vaccinated that Israel now... The difference is Israel vaccinated before Delta... Cases rose again in Israel once Delta arrived. Unless we enforce vaccination of everyone over 12, we have to accept that vaccines AND infection immunity is needed for cases to be brought under control.

Around 1250 people will have died in the UK. It is hardly surprising that as more people contract covid more people have covid at the time of their death. That does not mean to say covid has killed them.

@TableFlowerss

**We absolutely do have this attitude to other things. We could completely ban alcohol.and smoking and save countless lives.... why don't we just do this then?? Or ban cars and save lives their. Or ban swimming and save lives their...

All of these things have a risk of death that is acceptable to the wider society.

Every time I say that there isn't anyone that can give a good answer**

@Tuba437

Exactly! As soon as you put that to the lockdown lovers though, they go quiet. A couple of times I’ve put similar arguments to you forward and no one responds….. not surprising as what can they say?! They can’t argue with logic.

You’re quite right. Far more people will die from obesity and the complications it brings than will with Covid. In fact, not long ago an ICU doctor was being interviewed and he said 80% of his patients on the Covid ward, who weren’t elderly or vulnerable, were clinically obese.

On a positive note - but conveniently hidden low down in an article by the BBC - that cases in Scotland are already down by a third in the last fortnight. If you contribute to the Zoe Symptom App, Tim Spector stated in his latest update that infections in the U.K. generally have plateaued in the last week and he believes will slowly start decreasing.

Tuba, what you people don't understand is after Delta there'll be another variant, probably in autumn, created as a result of our stupid experiment with Delta. Personally we have to accept it's not going away even if we go through this wave now, the waves will keep on coming, the masks may need to stay

David Spiegelhalter said on Today Programme (sometime last week) that an unvaccinated 20 YO is still at lower risk of death than a double vaccinated 60 YO. He indicated that was entirely as expected.

I found that quite reassuring. I had started to fear that maybe the vaccines were not working.

But we don’t just put alcohol and cigarettes and cars into the public with no warnings or no risk management

Are you joking? We have thrown almost everything into covid risk management for the last 18 months, and made unprecedented sacrifices in almost every other aspect of life. God knows how much this has cost in economic terms. Meanwhile, We still have vaccines, healthcare (with a variety of treatments now available), test and trace, ongoing isolations, border restrictions, guidance and advice, public health education, all kinds of mitigation measures in specific setting like hospitals.

Covid- fundamentalists will never be satisfied until we sacrifice almost everything that makes life worth living in the name of slightly reducing the impact of this one, general mild, infectious disease.

@marieantoinehairnet

Tuba, what you people don't understand is after Delta there'll be another variant, probably in autumn, created as a result of our stupid experiment with Delta. Personally we have to accept it's not going away even if we go through this wave now, the waves will keep on coming, the masks may need to stay

Considering there are millions of cases of covid daily there is just as much of a chance of another variant popping up anywhere in the world than there is here.

And about 450 died of cancer
More of suicide
My nephew 12 year old friend tried to stab himself due to anxiety made worse by restrictions

Yep but let's focus on the average 35 dying each day of covid

Boris had to think of the economy also not just covid jeez

And then when they get long covid and are unable to work, they'll be the ones stuck in a callous benefits system, falling into poverty

That's what I'm concerned about. So much we don't know yet.

My hunch is that a lot of the above cases will be women (if LC follows pattern of CFS/ME in terms of population/recovery rates).

@Homeontherangeuk

PickleAF, he's not listening to the scientists...

How do you know they all say different things

No we are definitely brewing up a special variant for the autumn, watch this space

And yet, Flowerlane, stock markets are tumbling around the world because of the rise of cases

Bollocks. The stock markets do not care about the number of cases. The stock markets dislike uncertainty, rather than covid.

@Jaxhog

When people talk about the vaccine, they forget that it is not 100% effective. Even at 95% effective, that still means a lot of people will catch it and die. Since less than 55% of people are fully vaccinated, that increases the numbers still further.

Yes, but the 55% that aren't are either young and not CV, so very low risk, or they've deliberately refused the jab. It's not like the risk is 55% of what it was, nothing like it!

Vast vaccination drives mutations, can bring gov paper from sage with this statement

@duffeldaisy
No, it’s in a PHE report from the 25th June

It was deaths between 1st February 2021 and 21st June.
There were a lot more unvaccinated admitted to hospital for emergency care but more deaths from vaccinated people.

@PurpleDaisies

What’s all this “we are vaccinated now” talk? Plenty of us aren’t through no fault of our own. We are still waiting for appointments to happen.

If you're still waiting you must be in a very low risk group... or delayed getting your jab.

@Blessex

Look. For all those who want to live a life locked down and masked then please go ahead. For the rest of us who have done this for 18 months and are now double jabbed, we are through with it. My parents want to spend their last few years playing with their grandchildren. Young adults want to find their soulmates and party. Kids need education and social skills. Everyone needs company and hugs. Covid is shit yes. But now we are vaccinated there is little else we can do. Cases will rise and will keep rising. But this virus is here to stay. So those who want to live a life of lockdown then carry on. For those who want to start living again in what is already a short life - then please let them.

Well bloody said

@PurpleDaisies

We could even get a walk in vaccine in primark this weekend!

Struggle to imagine those who want a vaccine haven’t got access to one

“Vast vaccination drives mutations”. What does this mean? That vaccination is a waste of time? If so, what is the alternative? lockdown for ever?

Look. For all those who want to live a life locked down and masked then please go ahead. For the rest of us who have done this for 18 months and are now double jabbed, we are through with it. My parents want to spend their last few years playing with their grandchildren. Young adults want to find their soulmates and party. Kids need education and social skills. Everyone needs company and hugs. Covid is shit yes. But now we are vaccinated there is little else we can do. Cases will rise and will keep rising. But this virus is here to stay. So those who want to live a life of lockdown then carry on. For those who want to start living again in what is already a short life - then please let them.

Me too for this.

After reading this article by independent journalists, I'm dubious about these death statistics.

www.ukcolumn.org/index.php/article/deceptive-construction-why-we-must-question-covid-19-mortality-statistics

I just want to go to sleep until next spring, and then maybe it will be over!

[quote Sugarandtime]@duffeldaisy
No, it’s in a PHE report from the 25th June

It was deaths between 1st February 2021 and 21st June.
There were a lot more unvaccinated admitted to hospital for emergency care but more deaths from vaccinated people.[/quote]
Perhaps we should consider giving mRNA (Pfizer and Moderna) boosters to people who had astrazeneca? Particularly the vulnerable.

In America, where the majority are getting mRNA vaccines (a smaller number have the Johnson and Johnson), people who are double jabbed are rarely needing to be hospitalised. And almost 100% of the deaths are in the unvaccinated.

@marieantoinehairnet

No we are definitely brewing up a special variant for the autumn, watch this space

Well government are worried about beta which is south African as escapes vaccines and not great with az.

Lamba which is south American.

All gone quiet on so called delta plus.
Also still speculation a new varient maybe driving rises In the North East.
PHE are denying they worried about new varient.

Maybe once London is affected more restrictions will be brought back.

American data strongly suggests that Pfizer and Moderna work very well at preventing hospitalisations and deaths

They're calling it the pandemic of the unvaccinated over there.