96 dead today...

[Homeontherangeuk]

But Boris knows what he's doing...

@SmallPrawnEnergy

If we can’t get back to some normality there will be thousands more dead from suicides Why does this always get trotted out when it’s simply not true. There hasn’t been a document rise in suicide over the lockdowns / pandemic so please stop using MH victims as fodder for your shakey arguments about your “freedom”.

Fortunately, provisional suicide rates for 2020 in England has found no evidence that national suicide rates increased. And evidence from the National Confidential Inquiry (NCISH) and the University of Manchester suggests suicide rates during the first national lockdown in England have not been impacted in the way that many of us were concerned about.
Source/ Samaritans

Yeah, I’ll wait for the official ONS figures later this year.

"Maybe not committing suicide, but pretty sad all the same. The duffel daisy person wanting “full lockdowns” has clearly never been young and starting out in life, but only beamed straight into a family unit, comfortable state of financial security and pleasant living conditions."

How did you know?!!

No, it's the people who are not in financial security, who are in overcrowded housing, who are working in jobs where they can't work from home - or where they risk being fired if they don't come in after a long ride on public transport, who can't get a day off to be jabbed at a centre that takes a long time to walk to because they don't have a car, who are going to suffer the most.
And then when they get long covid and are unable to work, they'll be the ones stuck in a callous benefits system, falling into poverty.

This isn't about privilege. The privileged ones are able to work from home, to drive somewhere nice for a day out without having to bump into lots of people, the ones who have more control over their daily lives and the money to cope if they get ill.

Eventually the penny will drop that we have to live with covid and people will have to make own decisions re health risks, just like other health issues.
Until then there will be much wailing that’s it’s not fair. It isn’t, but that’s life.

@NonagonInfinityOpensTheDoor

We absolutely do have this attitude to other things. We could completely ban alcohol.and smoking and save countless lives.... why don't we just do this then?? Or ban cars and save lives their. Or ban swimming and save lives their...

All of these things have a risk of death that is acceptable to the wider society.

Every time I say that there isn't anyone that can give a good answer.

But we don’t just put alcohol and cigarettes and cars into the public with no warnings or no risk management.

Swimming pools have lifeguards and outdoor water bodies have buoyancy aids to reduce risks and help prevent deaths.

Cars have seatbelts and impact testing and things like speed limits and traffic calming implemented to again, help reduce deaths.

Alcohol and Cigarettes make the government w shit tonne of money so they’d never be banned but they’re age restricted, come with warnings etc.

Things like masks, and social distancing and other risk management help prevent deaths. It’s the same thing, but that’s “taking away freedoms” accord to the hard of thinking.

But masks and social distancing weren't lowering the numbers they may just slow it down until bam we have higher cases in the autumn and winter as opposed to getting it over and done with in the summer. There were 2 options... full lockdown or open up. People wouldn't comply with another lockdown so we have opened up.

But we don't know what killed the 96 so all the chat about vaccinations protecting or not protecting may not be really very relevant here. All 96 could have been double vaccinated for all we know but died of stroke, cancer, dementia related illness but happened to test positive. I don't understand why people don't get this.

96 people haven't died of Covid. 96 people have died who have had a positive test in the last 28 days, they could have been hit by a bus and it'll still go on the Covid records.

Vaccines are working, cases are going to be high, we are just opening up. The fact of the matter is this is never going away, and how much more can the economy or other sectors take?? The amount of departments closed that aren't deemed necessary in social care, mental health - the effects are catastrophic.

Whether we do it now, or we wait months or until next Year it'll be the same. People are always going to refuse the vaccine so there will always be hospitals with those in them. There will be flu like seasons where it's rife and it'll be about forever two we need to learn to live with it now.

It's incredibly sad that so many have lost their lives, not minimising that in the slightest. Stop reading about it in the news, they only report the bad scary stuff! Nothing new there!

@Fairyliz

Surely this must mean the vaccine isn’t working!!! On July 19th 2020 no one had been vaccinated and less people had had Covid so no natural immunity. Yet the deaths then were on 26. Still awful but not as bad. So does the vaccine work or do we just have to take our chance?

You can't compare last July with this. In 2020, pubs/restaurants and other places only opened up in July, but in 2021, they've been open 2/3 months already. Schools were closed last year but are open this year.

[quote User5827372728]@Myplantsare

We will know in 2 weeks as takes about that long from testing positive to getting seriously ill[/quote]
Also, that would have been enough time for the virus to run rampant at the euros and tennis. There will be a big spike I think

How about we keep masks, keep some really basic social distancing measures and stop encouraging massive benders and nationwide piss ups like the Euros until we've got everyone vacc'd, and even then be cautious and act like we care about our citizens, not rocket science

@marieantoinehairnet

How about we keep masks, keep some really basic social distancing measures and stop encouraging massive benders and nationwide piss ups like the Euros until we've got everyone vacc'd, and even then be cautious and act like we care about our citizens, not rocket science

Thousands are refusing to have the vaccine, so there's zero point waiting about.

Yes he does indeed. As do the world's doctors and scientists including those at the WHO.

He is knowingly taking action that will kill and disable huge numbers of people.

@marieantoinehairnet

How about we keep masks, keep some really basic social distancing measures and stop encouraging massive benders and nationwide piss ups like the Euros until we've got everyone vacc'd, and even then be cautious and act like we care about our citizens, not rocket science

What's the point? Infection rates started to rise massively when we DID have masks, SD, etc. The requirements only stopped yesterday and lots of people are still doing - yesterday's change will have made zero difference to today's infection, hospitalisation and death figures.

If you want to get infection numbers down again, we need to go back a couple of steps and close pubs, restaurants, tourism, attractions, etc. Is that what you want? Otherwise we just have to ride the wave.

@marieantoinehairnet

How about we keep masks, keep some really basic social distancing measures and stop encouraging massive benders and nationwide piss ups like the Euros until we've got everyone vacc'd, and even then be cautious and act like we care about our citizens, not rocket science

Slight problem. We'd need a sensible government to have that.

Yes the PM is surrounded by advisors the question is does he take their advise after all he is a bit of a maverick.

Is the UK using Regeneron to treat patients yet?

@duffeldaisy you can not seriously after all this time still be comparing with those countries , why not european ones who we are close to and share similar culture etc

he's advised by panels of scientists and advisors and the hundreds of people work on providing the data that goes into these decisions

And he ignores all of them.

Chris Whitty and Patrick Valance effectively say as much when they say.

"We are scientists. We can advise, but that's all we can do. Government decides whether to act on our advice."

I’m getting really concerned that PHE are writing that more people that have been vaccinated, especially with 2 vaccinations have died than unvaccinated.

I know there is probably a good explanation as to why that is but I always thought it would have been the other way around.
It wasn’t something I was expecting to read and it’s really got me worried now.

@newnortherner111

Millions of people in this country could do a better job than Mr Johnson. At least 200 of them are Tory MPs. The economy is harmed by the spread of the virus because of lack of action over restricting travel when India's crisis hit earlier in the year. Travel restrictions from France because the government fails to grasp a simple thing that there are parts of the country outside Europe, including one in the Indian Ocean.

Including those over 80 who Mr Johnson does not value at all, if the allegations made by Mr Cummings are true.

Those allegations are troubling me too. Even though DC has an obvious axe to grind, I find myself leaning towards believing him. Boris says things 'off the cuff' all the time and I don't find it hard to believe he said that about the over-80s.

As for having to have it explained to him why it was a bad idea to visit the Queen...

**We absolutely do have this attitude to other things. We could completely ban alcohol.and smoking and save countless lives.... why don't we just do this then?? Or ban cars and save lives their. Or ban swimming and save lives their...

All of these things have a risk of death that is acceptable to the wider society.

Every time I say that there isn't anyone that can give a good answer**

@Tuba437

Exactly! As soon as you put that to the lockdown lovers though, they go quiet. A couple of times I’ve put similar arguments to you forward and no one responds….. not surprising as what can they say?! They can’t argue with logic.

@Fairyliz

Surely this must mean the vaccine isn’t working!!! On July 19th 2020 no one had been vaccinated and less people had had Covid so no natural immunity. Yet the deaths then were on 26. Still awful but not as bad. So does the vaccine work or do we just have to take our chance?

Given the vaccination profile of those who've died, had there been no vaccination programme it's reasonable to think deaths would be 1,000+ per day by now.

@Sugarandtime
That was an error. Patrick Valence later tweeted to clarify - it's 60% of those who died didn't have a vaccination (not 40%).
The unclear thing is about the other 40%, whether they were partly or fully vaccinated. But if you remember that now the majority of older, more vulnerable people are fully vaccinated, then it's not impossible that quite a light dose of covid could tip the very vulnerable over the edge. So it doesn't mean the vaccines don't work. As more people are vaccinated then statistically there will be more dying who are double jabbed.

I think Dominic Cummings is telling the version of the truth he has retconned into him coming out well (and I think he is a narcissist so believes it).

I imagine the truth is they joked about it how potentially it could happen rather than DC pointing out the flaws. I dont think how Boris JOhnson comes across changes I just think that DC has edited out himself

@marieantoinehairnet

How about we keep masks, keep some really basic social distancing measures and stop encouraging massive benders and nationwide piss ups like the Euros until we've got everyone vacc'd, and even then be cautious and act like we care about our citizens, not rocket science

People need to start listening to valance, whitty and JVT.

Vaccine take up is likely to be around 90%, add that to children and that's about 10 millions people that are not protected.

Hence we are going to Have this exit wave whether we like it or not, it just depends on when.

If we kept measures, yes the case numbers may be lower but we run the risk of a peak much closer to autumn and winter when the NHS is already stetched due to the worse weather and illnesses that come with that. Therefore overall deaths are likely to be higher from all illnesses even if covid deaths are lower. (This is the government's acknowledgement that covid is not the only thing killing or likely to kill people)

Open up now and yes covid deaths and cases may be higher but we protect the NHS over the winter period when they need it most.

It really isn't hard to understand.