96 dead today...

[Homeontherangeuk]

But Boris knows what he's doing...

Actually most people dying of covid are vaccinated now. That's because most people are vaccinated.

Firstly, the majority of the UK population is not yet fully vaccinated.

Secondly, read the article I linked above.

In America, Pfizer and Moderna (and perhaps Johnson and Johnson too) are highly effective at preventing hospitalisation and death.

Vaccinated people in America are getting infected - but mildly.

Can I please give a somewhat reassuring statistic. I am a front line health care prof in a very large London hospital. At work yesterday there were 5 Covid patients in ITU and 10 on the wards.

Now last January when we had a comparable number of cases of Covid we had over 300 patients on the wards and just over 100 in ITU with Covid.

The vaccines are working brilliantly but there is a lot of BS on social media about what's happening. Ultimately the link has been weakened between infection and mortality as well as to severe disease. We probably will need to pay less attention to case numbers at some point and a lot is currently been blown out of all proportion.

[quote Tealightsandd]@Heyhohi

www.businessinsider.com/fully-vaccinated-people-not-immune-to-covid-milder-2021-7?r=US&IR=T

This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated," Rochelle Walensky, the director of the CDC, said during a White House briefing on Friday.

In the US, unvaccinated people now account for 97% of COVID-19-related hospitalizations, the CDC said.

Looks like Pfizer and Moderna (and perhaps Johnson and Johnson too) work very well at preventing hospitalisation and death.[/quote]
This is interesting but also you’ve highlighted the most positive reading of it for US. Not everyone thinks it’s plain sailing as that edit implies

Young is frustrated that the data on her own breakthrough case — which was detected with an at-home test — won't be recorded anywhere by the CDC. Young said her doctor didn't encourage her to seek out confirmation with a laboratory test. Instead they said, "You just have to quarantine, and you should be fine."

Dean said, given the low level of testing and sequencing being done on fully vaccinated people right now, there's no way the US can keep tabs on the virus well enough. If we want to know how decent the vaccine protection of the country really is, Dean said, we need to know when vaccinated people are getting infected, what variant they have, and how severe their case is.

Fair? Where does that come into the picture? Surely, sensible is the word and behaviour we need to encourage? Fair is irrelevant. get the jab, and the second, be relatively safe.

It might be helpful to give Pfizer or Moderna boosters to people who've had AZ. As soon as supply allows.

Especially now that there is the risk of the Beta strain.

I will also add the some of the patients with Covid in hospital are not there with Covid. We test everyone who needs admission and there are some who have tested positive despite not having any symptoms but requiring admission for something different. All the stats are not all they seem!!

Plus how does data collection compare?

In the US, unvaccinated people now account for 97% of COVID-19-related hospitalizations, the CDC said.

Is this the same as us? Do we test in hospital and record each positive case? Regardless of reason for admission

The US is testing only those who need hospital. That might mean they don't know exactly how many people are infected - but they do know that 97% of those hospitalised are unvaccinated.

@MarshaBradyo

Plus how does data collection compare?

In the US, unvaccinated people now account for 97% of COVID-19-related hospitalizations, the CDC said.

Is this the same as us? Do we test in hospital and record each positive case? Regardless of reason for admission

Yes we do. We need to send them to a ward that can take Covid patients so everyone is tested

@Tealightsandd

The US is testing only those who need hospital. That might mean they don't know exactly how many people are infected - but they do know that 97% of those hospitalised are unvaccinated.

Yes but you’ll get a very different read on numbers if you compare US and U.K. method

AZ vaccine may be closer than this would imply

@Fairyliz

Surely this must mean the vaccine isn’t working!!! On July 19th 2020 no one had been vaccinated and less people had had Covid so no natural immunity. Yet the deaths then were on 26. Still awful but not as bad. So does the vaccine work or do we just have to take our chance?

I don't think there was mass testing then.Nobody knows how many people were infected int he first wave. The vaccine is working to reduce deaths and serious illness, it will not of course protect everybody, same as every vaccine.

@Tealightsandd

It might be helpful to give Pfizer or Moderna boosters to people who've had AZ. As soon as supply allows.

Especially now that there is the risk of the Beta strain.

Didn't Israel and Holland use predominately Pfizer? yet still have hi infections and hospitalizations, leading to retrictions being reimposed?

Have mRNA vaccine boosters been trialed with previous AZ and proven effective?
How long will it take to give these boosters to all adults in the UK?

Comparisons with the US is perhaps hard as they don't have a national health service, so who and how is data being collected?

In the US double jabbed Pfizer and Moderna (and possibly one shot J&J) are not needing hospital.

Whether that's because they're not infected or it's because they have a mild infection, the point is, almost all of those needing hospital in the US are the unvaccinated.

Pfizer and Moderna look to be highly effective at preventing hospitalisation and death.

@Tealightsandd

In the US double jabbed Pfizer and Moderna (and possibly one shot J&J) are not needing hospital.

Whether that's because they're not infected or it's because they have a mild infection, the point is, almost all of those needing hospital in the US are the unvaccinated.

Pfizer and Moderna look to be highly effective at preventing hospitalisation and death.

We used Pfizer here with older groups.

Are we seeing the same?

Re Israel and the Netherlands. I understood their hospitalisations were fuelled by the partially and unvaccinated, not the fully jabbed. Is that not the case? It would be good to see some of the data.

@marmaladehound,thanks for posting.I sort of 'feel ' this is what's happening but the powers that be and the media mess with your head.

We used Pfizer here with older groups.

Not all. Lots got AZ.

@Tealightsandd

We used Pfizer here with older groups.

Not all. Lots got AZ.

Yes and those who did get Pfizer?

You’re better off looking at that too see if it is same here

Have mRNA vaccine boosters been trialed with previous AZ and proven effective?

There was a study suggesting AZ first dose followed by mRNA second dose gives the strongest protection.

In Germany, Angela Merkel (who is a scientist, albeit not in virology) had AZ as her first and Moderna for her second.

@MarshaBradyo

That is data we don't know. The double jabbed in UK hospitals. Which vaccine.

What I am seeing in my hospital is a mixed bag. Young unvaccinated, but rarely admitted. Some Middle aged partially jabbed, most not admitted, occasional admission. And as a stark example for you, I patient in his 70's tested positive for Covid with no symptoms admitted for something else entirely, Pfizer double jabbed. Another patient, very high risk, elderly multiple co morbidities, double jabbed, admitted to ITU.

No hard stats for you only anecdotal.

Oh right I wonder if they moved down the ages so first x million went to oldest

Then again everyone who tests positive is Covid case. Really hard to compare as they count it differently

We can’t say 97% or whatever in unvaccinated as we don’t separate merely tested positive from Covid case

@marmaladehound

Can I please give a somewhat reassuring statistic. I am a front line health care prof in a very large London hospital. At work yesterday there were 5 Covid patients in ITU and 10 on the wards.

Now last January when we had a comparable number of cases of Covid we had over 300 patients on the wards and just over 100 in ITU with Covid.

The vaccines are working brilliantly but there is a lot of BS on social media about what's happening. Ultimately the link has been weakened between infection and mortality as well as to severe disease. We probably will need to pay less attention to case numbers at some point and a lot is currently been blown out of all proportion.

Although ITU might get closer to it. This sounds encouraging

Yesterday, Vallance said that 60% of hospital covid cases were unvaccinated (there was some muddle over number so unclear if that's 60% totally unvaccinated and 40% with one or two shots, or 60% who aren't fully vaccinated and 40% who are).
news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vallance-corrects-mistake-to-say-60-of-people-being-admitted-to-hospital-with-coronavirus-are-unvaccinated-12359317

The US I think is different though divided into vaccinated and unvaccinated areas. It hit the latter first and hard so obviously data shows far higher hospitalisations in the unvaccinated.

It is now hitting the higher vaccinated states - who dont seem to want to bring back mask mandates either.

You cannot look at the US and extrapolate about the effects of different vaccines not yet anyway.

France though seems to be rising scarily at the moment