96 dead today...

[Homeontherangeuk]

But Boris knows what he's doing...

Continuing some mitigations like masks and SD would make a difference in reducing transmission whilst still allowing the roadmap to progress as planned whilst the vaccination programme continues.

Yes.

And this is what the experts - doctors and scientists - around the world, including the WHO, are saying.

But - British exceptionalism.

leafyygreens
No one can force you to stand within 2m of someone or not wear a mask.

Unless in a work setting; in which case again - change jobs.

@Tealightsandd

Continuing some mitigations like masks and SD would make a difference in reducing transmission whilst still allowing the roadmap to progress as planned whilst the vaccination programme continues.

Yes.

And this is what the experts - doctors and scientists - around the world, including the WHO, are saying.

But - British exceptionalism.

I think that point that may have been missed is that we're not specifically worried about getting coronavirus individually, it's the population level consequences of another uncontrolled wave that overwhelms healthcare that is concerning

@LemonSwan

leafyygreens No one can force you to stand within 2m of someone or not wear a mask.

Unless in a work setting; in which case again - change jobs.

see my post above

I and other scientists are not specifically worried about getting COVID ourselves

Still waiting. Why?
PurpleDaisies
"What’s all this “we are vaccinated now” talk? Plenty of us aren’t through no fault of our own. We are still waiting for appointments to happen."

over 18's started to have the jab weeks ago and for older age groups that haven't bothered well we cannot keep waiting around for them to get their ass in gear and get on with it can we.

It's not only frail old people who die... I do know this. My 6'5" DH had a cardiac arrest at 50... in an ambulance. DMIL, with dementia, at 92 is hale and hearty and well looked after in a care home. Which would you save if you had to push one out of the balloon? You can't choose. Or I couldn't.

@DottyHarmer

Sadly there is a thread running in which people are saying what they like about the pandemic. I’m afraid there is a vocal group of people for whom all this is all very suitable or even quite exciting. Social media allows these weasels to find each other.

No doubt in WW2 some people benefitted. Fil had to leave school at 13 and work in a shoemenders. He joined the navy at 16 and got to travel the world. Young women stuck in East Anglian villages got to meet masses of young airmen/Americans whereas previously they’d have had the choice of George the pigman or John the cowman.

But in those days these people weren’t on the internet slapping each other on the virtual back about how the war suited them just fine whilst others were suffering terribly.

Bang on. It certainly does suit some people!

@Tealightsandd

Continuing some mitigations like masks and SD would make a difference in reducing transmission whilst still allowing the roadmap to progress as planned whilst the vaccination programme continues.

Yes.

And this is what the experts - doctors and scientists - around the world, including the WHO, are saying.

But - British exceptionalism.

Don't you mean world beating?

We always know best, except we don't

I get the sentiment leafy

But frankly at this stage people need to take individual responsibility.

They want to get covid by not wearing a mask fine. With this level of community spread they wont last long uninfected and thats them off to the herd immunity group for the next 9 months. That covers winter and IMO not a bad move.

The virus isnt going anywhere - ever. So we have no choice. Deal with this now in summer, or deal with this in winter.

think that point that may have been missed is that we're not specifically worried about getting coronavirus individually, it's the population level consequences of another uncontrolled wave that overwhelms healthcare that is concerning

And the increased risk of creating a world beating vaccine resistant strain.

Experts are right to warn that the UK is a threat to the world.

@TheTallOakTrees

Still waiting. Why? PurpleDaisies "What’s all this “we are vaccinated now” talk? Plenty of us aren’t through no fault of our own. We are still waiting for appointments to happen."

over 18's started to have the jab weeks ago and for older age groups that haven't bothered well we cannot keep waiting around for them to get their ass in gear and get on with it can we.

Over 30 and I’m still waiting for my second jab. It depends on areas

What were they thinking opening up nightclubs?

@LemonSwan

I get the sentiment leafy

But frankly at this stage people need to take individual responsibility.

They want to get covid by not wearing a mask fine. With this level of community spread they wont last long uninfected and thats them off to the herd immunity group for the next 9 months. That covers winter and IMO not a bad move.

The virus isnt going anywhere - ever. So we have no choice. Deal with this now in summer, or deal with this in winter.

@LemonSwan

Taking individual responsibility during an infectious disease pandemic works up until a point - ie if you are vulnerable or anxious you can distance yourself, get vaccinated, avoid crowded places.

The point I'm making is that if transmission gets beyond safe limits that impact on everyone - doesn't matter if you're vulnerable to COVID or not. If you need an emergency appendectomy but there aren't enough staff to carry out the surgery safely because they're either off sick or saturated with COVID patients there's no individual action you can take that would have prevented that from happening. You are dependent on transmission remaining low enough, which is a population level factor.

The measures I have mentioned, such as masks and SD in some contexts, would go ways into reducing transmission whilst having little impact on the economy and other aspects. A blanket drop of all restrictions for "freedom day" was not sensible.

[quote Tealightsandd]@Heyhohi

Yes breakthrough mild infections.

In America double jabbed can experience breakthrough infections - but they are rarely anything other than mild.

The CDC is saying that fully jabbed are rarely needing hospital. And almost 100% of the deaths (in America) are in the unvaccinated.[/quote]
Brilliant, do you have a link please?

The measures I have mentioned, such as masks and SD in some contexts, would go ways into reducing transmission whilst having little impact on the economy and other aspects. A blanket drop of all restrictions for "freedom day" was not sensible

But they weren’t. Have you been out? Where are you and what have you seen

Because here in mid to central London not much has changed in terms of behaviour.

The measures I have mentioned, such as masks and SD in some contexts, would go ways into reducing transmission whilst having little impact on the economy and other aspects. A blanket drop of all restrictions for "freedom day" was not sensible.

Most people are still SD and wearing masks. Thats not going to change just because its not law.

And a blanket drop so people can go to clubs / bars etc and drink without wearing a mask. Well if not now - when?

Next summer?
Summer 2023?
2025?

What do you think?
When would the bar be for you?

@FakeColinCaterpillar

My local hospital is full of people who haven’t been vaccinated, refused the second dose because they have been scared of side effects or have been unable to get it (the ICU doctor writes a weekly update). I think the vaccine is working, not getting everyone who can get it to take it is the failure.

It went round a huge group of friends of mine

All the unvaccinated ones ended up in hospital (some 15 ladies). All the vaccinated ones didn’t get sick. (Some 11 odd ladies)

They say the ones who are sick right now. Or really sick are unvaccinated. More than vaccinated right now.

@Myplantsare

46,000 new cases....the last time we had cases that high we had 1500 a day dying

This is true but... The last time was when case figures were on their way down, so the number dying was related to a much higher case figure a few weeks before. At the moment we're looking at deaths connected with the case figures for a few weeks ago which were much lower than they are now.

The last time new case figures were 46,000 and rising, deaths were more like 500. Which is still a lot higher than the current rate, but not by nearly as much as the 1500 figure would suggest.

All the unvaccinated ones ended up in hospital (some 15 ladies). All the vaccinated ones didn’t get sick. (Some 11 odd ladies)

A group of 26 of your friends recently all got Covid...and every unvaccinated person was severely ill, so much so they ended up in hospital. Yet all of those vaccinated weren't ill at all?

Those are some award winning odds there. All 15 hospitalised...don't think such a run of bad luck has ever been reported, you should go to the papers.

As as couple of over 60, we are both double-vaxxed. DS aged 22 has had a first AZ shot and had COVID last September in Freshers Week; mildly under the weather with it. We shall continue to wear masks in shops and crowded areas, but to protect other people rather than because we are dodging infection. Would I have gone to Wembley? No. No more than I would go to a club anymore.

@Tealightsandd

Continuing some mitigations like masks and SD would make a difference in reducing transmission whilst still allowing the roadmap to progress as planned whilst the vaccination programme continues.

Yes.

And this is what the experts - doctors and scientists - around the world, including the WHO, are saying.

But - British exceptionalism.

These mitigations were not reducing cases. Though... just delaying them which will push our peak towards the winter. How to you not get this. If cases had been dropping with those measures then I might be all for it but they were doing Jack all.

@User135644

What were they thinking opening up nightclubs?

They are thinking that the age group that are most likely to go to a night club will be the age group with the smallest vaccine take up. So night clubs act as a big covid party which won't have much of an effect on the NHS but can push herd immunity numbers up.

Not a bad strategy

@Heyhohi

www.businessinsider.com/fully-vaccinated-people-not-immune-to-covid-milder-2021-7?r=US&IR=T

This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated," Rochelle Walensky, the director of the CDC, said during a White House briefing on Friday.

In the US, unvaccinated people now account for 97% of COVID-19-related hospitalizations, the CDC said.

Looks like Pfizer and Moderna (and perhaps Johnson and Johnson too) work very well at preventing hospitalisation and death.

Actually most people dying of covid are vaccinated now. That's because most people are vaccinated.

I know the argument is that if not now when... but it's not really a big ask to keep SD and masks and the other measures (personally I loved table service in pubs which they do on the continent as standard).

That's where Boris Johnson has been irresponsible in my opinion. It would have been very easy to keep masks and SD until all had been offered a 2nd dose.

@Tuba437
These mitigations were not reducing cases. Though... just delaying them which will push our peak towards the winter. How to you not get this. If cases had been dropping with those measures then I might be all for it but they were doing Jack all.

But they could have stayed in place until all had been offered the 2nd jab? That surely would have been fairer?